Lessons posted:

babyfinland posted:

Goethestein posted:
Naw I mean stuff like vaccinations, plumbing, antibiotics , painkillers, electricity

it has a lot more to do with urbanization and socioeconomics than it does "plumbing"

people in the upper paleolithic had fairly egalitarian socioeconomics and an average life expectancy of about 40 and when they urbanized it dropped to about 30

you can't measure quality of life in years, lessons.

Lessons posted:
are yall still whining about transsexuals? some people want to be a different gender just get over it you perverts.

It is immoral to tell the mentally ill that is OK, laudable or necessary to castrate themselves

Lessons posted:
baby finland literally believes Method Doesn't Matter. you just get real rich and get some slaves from your colonies then think real hard and Science happens. in fact you don't even have to think, you can pray. St. Francis of Assisi prayed so hard that he discovered how to build nuclear weapons, but chose not to reveal how to do so, because he was a Man of God.

are you still mad abotu getting owned

babyfinland posted:
are you still mad abotu getting owned

maybe you should pray for a clue.

Lessons posted:

babyfinland posted:
no i dont think so mr lessons. refuting an attribution of magical powers to atheist belief is not the same as rejecting the scientific method or recognition of its development. you seem to want to say that the scientific method fell out of the sky once some italians flipped the bird at the pope and then they became science lords on the back of their revelation. this is absurd

well, none the less, you did just that, in addition to whatever straw people you might have knocked down. now apparently you don't believe that? it's very difficult to discuss anything when you're all over the page like this. in any case no, of course it didn't fall out of the sky, but it wasn't successful purely because of colonialism either (though that surely didn't hurt).

no im not doign what youre saying im doing actually, and im not "all over the place". me having to reject your mischaracterizations does not mean that i am "all over the place", it means you are flailing about and desperately avoiding engaging the argument by throwing ad hominems and strawmen as much as you can. i have made no rejection of method, ive just proposed a model that does not monopolize method as the be-all and end-all. that classical narrative clearly privileges the negative articles of faith in atheism, empiricism, rationalism, et c. as they are derived from transplantation of the principles of the method. it follows from this that the institutionalization of such things as in bourgeois political economy and its historical projects (colonialism, capitalism) are glorified by this narrative. it was not colonialism that elevated the west to imperialist ruler, it was the revelations of the scientific revolution, by coincidence! the divine intervention of chance, thats all. there's a number of problems with this narrative that are obfuscated by claims of scientific and philosophical "revolutions", the "decline" of science in other civilizations where colonialism and capitalism did not develop and it asserts instead the supremacy of western culture as such, particularly devoid of any positive moral bounds on power that would prevent the accumulation of capital that are to be regarded as backwards, antiscientific, antirationalist, etc

maybe you should re-read your mao, maoist

Goethestein posted:

Lessons posted:

Goethestein posted:
Urbanization occurred precisely because of the technological advancements of the industrial revolution.

urbanization actually preceded the industrial revolution. it certainly didn't raise standards of living though, that's blatantly absurd, especially when industrialization actually did kick in.

Yes cities did in fact exist prior to the industrial revolution but explosive urbanization did not

explosive urbanization has as much to do with urban migration that resulted from non-technological social factors as it did with implements developed in the industrial revolution. in fact the industrial revolution itself can not be reduced to scientific and technological factors either

Goethestein posted:
The west was elevated to ruler via colonialism, which was possible due to their superior technology

technology they adopted from islamicate and chinese civilization, and the circumstances permitting colonialism were far more incidental than determined by those technologies (seeing as how the rest of the world had them before they did). colonialism preceded most of europe's unique scientific development

Lessons posted:

Goethestein posted:
The west was elevated to ruler via colonialism, which was possible due to their superior technology

not really, it was more because europe was filled with savage tribes that went to war all the time and invested more in military development

europe didnt really have better military science than say the ottomans did either though. they did have feudalism, and they did have ahem a unique economic organizational mode that spurred protocapitalist activity once they discovered banking

edit your edit. good edit

EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
Thug Lessons must shoulder the ownerous burden of calling us out on our shit. It is a solitary and difficult task but it's one he knows he has to do.

people be literally believing shit