#1
Post rating: ~
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/15/queen-royal-yacht-diamond-jubilee-gove?commentpage=all#start-of-comments

Michael Gove has brushed aside Britain's economic problems to propose the public donate a new royal yacht to the Queen as a mark of respect during this year's diamond jubilee celebrations, according to a confidential letter to fellow ministers.

In the letter, which has been sent to Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary and minister overseeing the celebrations, and to the deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, Gove at one point comes close to suggesting that Britain's dire economic climate means that a large-scale celebration is required to lift the country's spirits.

The education secretary writes: "In spite, and perhaps because of the austere times, the celebration should go beyond those of previous jubilees and mark the greater achievement that the diamond anniversary represents."

The Liberal Democrats privately expressed surprise at the proposal, which is likely to cost at least £60m, at a time of national austerity.

Meanwhile Tom Watson, the Labour party vice-chairman, said: "When school budgets are being slashed, parents will be wondering how Gove came even to suggest this idea."

Gove, an enthusiastic monarchist, writes in the letter: "I feel strongly that the diamond jubilee gives us a tremendous opportunity to recognise in a very fitting way the Queen's highly significant contribution to the life of the nation and the Commonwealth."

Commenting on draft celebration proposals prepared by Hunt, Gove expresses his reservations at a lack of ambition, saying: "I feel strongly more should be done to achieve a longer lasting legacy. Events such as proms and the party at the palace organised for the diamond jubilee, and street parties, although excellent, are transient. It would be appropriate to do something that will mark the significance of this occasion with fitting ceremony.

"My suggestion would be a gift from the nation to her majesty; thinking about David Willetts's excellent suggestion of a royal yacht, and something tangible to commemorate this momentous occasion." He adds: "The year ahead provides an enormous opportunity to showcase the very best of Britain."

Hinting at cabinet tensions over the way in which the culture department is focusing so heavily on the Olympics in the year of the jubilee, Gove says: "The diamond jubilee must not be overshadowed by the Olympic Games, but form an integral part of this great year for our country."

Some of Gove's extravagant language reveals the difficulties created for politicians by the coincidence of the jubilee and the Olympics, alongside forecasts that the UK economy will slip back into recession this year and see a further severe squeeze on living standards. Labour will be watching for any sign the national celebrations are used by the government to distract from the state of the economy.

Gove ends his letter by suggesting that if insufficient taxpayer funds are available a private donation could be sought, before making a naked departmental bid for every schoolchild or school to be given a gift as a permanent reminder of the event. Gove's office confirmed the authenticity of the letter but refused to comment.

The royal yacht Britannia was decommissioned by the Labour government in December 1997 and became a visitor attraction in Edinburgh. It was last seen listing after a leak during repairs over the New Year holiday.

Various efforts have been made to propose a new royal yacht, but have been rejected on the grounds of cost, estimated in 1997 at £60m. However, during the June celebrations a luxury cruiser boat, the Spirit of Chartwell, which is already being dressed up as a royal barge, will carry the Queen along the Thames as part of a pageant.



100 million dollars to be spent on a boat for the Queen while they make savage cuts to welfare and disability. I don't know what I can add to this, apart from how depressing a political environment is that this can be seriously proposed.

More reason to riot lads, get on it.

#2
Nippon
Post rating: +
kill all the royals
#3
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
i don't feel comfortable critiquing public spending, sorry. what if some of those yachtbuilding jobs are unionized? we need to defend good jobs and public spending. the problem isn't that one public servant and religious leader (the queen) is getting a good deal, but the rest of us aren't. the politics of envy get us nowhere. now's not a good time to criticize a public servant just for political points. vote labour.
#4
Post rating: ~
Good points except you know they'd would probably build it in South Korea or something
#5
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
#6
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
the government of canada just announced a $25 billion shipbuilding initiative for the atlantic provinces. on the day before they announced it some government lawyer released a brief saying that maybe gay marriages wouldn't be recognized in some instances or whatever and it blew their message completely off the rails lol. like they planned for months to get this perfect so they could buy off the east and bam a total non-story fucks them over. if i were communications director i would have swallowed a lot of ambien
#7
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
the government of canada just announced a $25 billion shipbuilding initiative for the atlantic provinces. on the day before they announced it some government lawyer released a brief saying that maybe gay marriages wouldn't be recognized in some instances or whatever and it blew their message completely off the rails lol. like they planned for months to get this perfect so they could buy off the east and bam a total non-story fucks them over. if i were communications director i would have swallowed a lot of ambien



I think that allowing gays to get married is a bit more important to the psyche of the country than postponing alcoholism for a few people in the maritimes for a couple of years.

#8
Post rating: ~
lol
#9
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
speaking of message control, in 2004 a rich woman named belinda stronach ran for leader of the conservatives in canada and there was massive hype about her. so she shows up at her press conference and one of the first questions is about the wars. like canada was debating its role in afghanistan and the US is getting bogged down in iraq. her main opponent, stephen harper, strongly supported sending canadian troops to iraq at the time of the launch of the war. and so she goes well you know i haven't thought about that yet. and the reporter was like wait a second what do you mean? you are running for prime minister and you don't know what your broad position is on foreign policy at all? and she was like no i guess i'll talk to some military advisors. anyway no one cared about that for some reason and she did really well all things considered lol
#10
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
I think that allowing gays to get married is a bit more important to the psyche of the country than postponing alcoholism for a few people in the maritimes for a couple of years.

gay marriage has been legal in canada since like 2003/2004

#11
lame
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
speaking of message control, in 2004 a rich woman named belinda stronach ran for leader of the conservatives in canada and there was massive hype about her. so she shows up at her press conference and one of the first questions is about the wars. like canada was debating its role in afghanistan and the US is getting bogged down in iraq. her main opponent, stephen harper, strongly supported sending canadian troops to iraq at the time of the launch of the war. and so she goes well you know i haven't thought about that yet. and the reporter was like wait a second what do you mean? you are running for prime minister and you don't know what your broad position is on foreign policy at all? and she was like no i guess i'll talk to some military advisors. anyway no one cared about that for some reason and she did really well all things considered lol



lol i remember that

#12
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
full disclosure: i voted for harper in that leadership race because the other candidates were basket cases, so i'm responsible for harper canada.

but like to give a sense of how out of it tony clement was, his major policy plank was to move to a system of lifetime income taxation. like young people would pay say 17% on their first million, then 22% on their next, etc. anyway so i ask him hey how would immigration work. like imagine a 45 year old who earns $150,000 a year comes to canada for a few years, will they pay a lower rate of tax while here than someone who was a janitor for their whole life and is now 57 or something. and he was like well i hadn't thought of that. now he's treasury minister i think
#13
Post rating: ~
They finally got jealous of gulf arab avarice and let go of all pretense of being a proper western country, seriously who wouldn't want to splurge like a medieval monarch?
#14
Post rating: ~
don’t hear much about Canadian politics here except that your environment minister or someone came out and laughed at the Carbon Tax that our Labour government just instituted and our conservatives are (somewhat justifiably) using it as proof that the rest of the comparable economies in the world (and Canada’s probably the closest to ours) are going to benefit at our expense because we Care too much about the environment….oh and you withdrawing from Kyoto too

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/canada-blunts-carbon-tax-case/story-fnapmixa-1226180920686

CANADIAN Foreign Minister John Baird has cast doubt on the fundamental analysis underpinning Australia's carbon tax policy, saying neither his nation nor the US would ever introduce an emissions trading scheme.

While avoiding any criticism of the Gillard government, Mr Baird told The Australian he did not believe any effective carbon-trading system would come into effect.

The ability to trade greenhouse gas emissions, or carbon credits, is central to the Australian government's carbon tax.
Under Labor's scheme, Australia's greenhouse gas emissions would continue to rise but the nation would achieve its carbon reduction targets by purchasing credits on an international scheme.
Mr Baird said he did not believe Canada would introduce a carbon tax or an ETS.

"The people of Canada spoke unequivocally about that at the last election," he said.

Mr Baird's conservative government, under the leadership of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, won an absolute majority in the Canadian parliament for the first time by advocating a policy of no-carbon tax and no ETS.

"I think there's only one member of parliament who advocates it, and that's the lone Greens member," Mr Baird said.

#15
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
that's disingenuous of baird. all the larger opposition parties support a carbon pricing system and combined (liberal, ndp, bloc, green) they got 59% of the vote.
#16
Post rating: ~
This is a babby's first canada question but i would have thought that the liberals and NDP could form a coalition to keep the conservatives out? The Greens and Labor have done that here even though they're at each others throats about a whole bunch of issues.
#17
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
well i could talk about that for hours but i'll try not to bore you too much.

first, canada has first-past-the-post, so the conservatives now hold a majority of the seats despite winning only about 40% of the national vote. but they were a minority government from 2006 to 2011.

in 2005 the ndp backed the liberal minority after getting some minor concessions on the budget. in 2006, the ndp decided that anger at the government was so high that they had to defeat the government and the conservatives won a minority government.

in the 2008 election there was a period where the conservatives won but looked like they wouldn't do shit about the great recession. so the liberals, ndp and bloc all signed a thing and appeared in public saying they intended to defeat the government and start a coalition, despite the conservatives holding a minority government. then harper suspended parliament (which was widely seen as a misuse of his power) and center-right liberals were like fuck no we won't do that, ostensibly because it meant that the bloc quebecois, a party designed to "destroy Canada", would hold the balance of power, which was seen as a moral non-starter. so the liberals chose a new leader and pretended to forget all about that.

in the 2011 election the liberals basically imploded and fell to their lowest share of support in history. the ndp won the official opposition and a lot of members are like fuck the liberals let them die off. meanwhile the liberals are mostly thinking that they could rebuild and get back into power soon enough. the greens also won their first seat in the election so they think they are on the verge of great things, even if they aren't. and the bloc is so dead (falling from about 48 seats to 4 in the last election) that well no one cares much about them.

i'd say that about half of each party's supporters would be quite happy with a merger, so it isn't impossible, but the problem is that the ndp still has a lot of real socialists and the liberals still have a lot of people who hate socialists. so it isn't entirely clear that the liberal democratic party or whatever would instantly win an election, as socialists would peel off and start their own activist party and/or pro-business types would either start a market liberal party or join the conservatives.
#18
Post rating: ~
Ahhh the joys of multi-party democracy.

Cool, that explained quite a few things. Just getting my Canada facts up to date, I land in Calgary in 2 weeks
#19
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
what are you up to in calgary, al-Berta
#20
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
also on the original topic, the liberal party of canada held a vote this weekend on whether to support abolishing the monarchy and only 33% supported it.
#21
Post rating: ~
2 weeks of fresh-ass powder skiing in BC with 10 friends!
#22
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
that has almost nothing to do with marxist-leninist theory, but i'm sure you'll find a way to have fun
#23
Post rating: ~
I know, it’s not a very lf pursuit but if Jools gets to go and play Impper’s Day Off in Chicago then I get to fly around the world to ski
#24
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
don't worry you have to fight for your right to party
#25
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
also on the original topic, the liberal party of canada held a vote this weekend on whether to support abolishing the monarchy and only 33% supported it.



Urgh, this. I have a very gay, very progressive yuppie Canadian friend who has moved over here and he LOVES the monarchy, and adores the pomp and tradition and shit and I can’t fathom it.

We had a referendum in 99 about becoming a republic but our tricky monarchist PM rigged the vote so the “Yes” option meant “Yes but parliament not the people chooses the head of state” and it went down in flames. Super depressing, I hate the union jack 

#26
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
english canadians literally don't understand why francophone quebecers dislike the monarchy and it is funny to me
#27
Post rating: ~
I would have thought it would be pretty obvious but then again, there are still whiteys here who act all hurt and shocked when Indigenous activists protest Australia Day.
#28
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
2 weeks of fresh-ass powder skiing in BC with 10 friends!



you should come visit me in seattle

#29
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
yeah canada is basically a white supremacist country which is funny because half of toronto is foreign-born
#30
Post rating: ~
i dont know shit about canada except i support whatever the french ones are doing
#31
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
2 weeks of fresh-ass powder skiing in BC with 10 friends!

you should come visit me in seattle



Oh man I would love to dude and i'd love to spend more time in the states but we're on a tight schedule and not flying through Seattle or Vancouver .....we're stopping in Hawaii for a week on the way back which will be cool but it's hardly the real america you know? I'm going to try and get back and do the states properly soon.

getfiscal posted:
yeah canada is basically a white supremacist country which is funny because half of toronto is foreign-born



Exactly the same here. Inner-ring suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne (1/3 foreign born for each city)you sometimes barely see an anglo face but the rest of the country is full of unreconstructed white people.

#32
Post rating: ~
hawaii? damn i kind of want to move there. let me know how it is
#33
lame
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
yeah canada is basically a white supremacist country which is funny because half of toronto is foreign-born



that's not very funny at all .__.

#34
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:
hawaii? damn i kind of want to move there. let me know how it is



Will do….we’re gonna hire convertible mustangs to blast around the islands….woo

I hear honolulu is the same old crime-sprawl as most American cities so we're not gonna hang around there.

#35
Post rating: ~
what do you mean by crime sprawl? i dont know shit about american cities but i kno i've been coming to love chicago more and more, even though technically i hate my life, i'm pretty comfortable here now. that's a sign i need to move, i think, but having a city like chicago with hawaii weather would be pretty sweet. imho
#36
Post rating: ~
Well maybe i'm just a baby and get an incomplete picture but heaps of American cities seem to be shitty downtowns surrounded by ghettos surrounded by endless suburban sprawl.

"crime sprawl" is a bit reductive i suppose though, i'm more thinking about st louis or detroit when i say that.
#37
Post rating: ~
st. louis and detroit both own though. ive been to the best parties in both cities
#38
Post rating: ~
No doubt, i'd just be worried about getting my dumb Australian ass killed walking into the wrong neighbourhood.

We only have 300 murders a year in the entire country so all your guns and slayings are a bit scary.
#39
Post rating: ~
there's been a shooting about once every 2-3 days in my friend's neighborhood. they're all gang-related, and about 1 in 15 people who get shot die. there's nothing to be afraid of. the worst that might happen is somebody will tell you to give them your wallet
#40
[account deactivated]