AmericanNazbro posted:

i'm going to bump this threaddf cuz it's got a wicked cool title (big ups to Aesthetic hardbro ken) and also because the other threads are gay as shit and boring. plus i was talking to someone over aim about this recently so i can just copy paste some things directly without a lot of effort.

anyways, the topic of appetite suppressants came up a lot in conversations recently, and it was mostly along the lines of "hey man, i've got no willpower tell me what drugs to take" and so EGCG, a catechin found primarily in green tea, was suggested because it is a naturally occurring substance [read: so i'm not recommending RX drugs & i don't have i guilt on my conscious when some dumby messes it up], that occurs in relatively low quantities in teas, but nonetheless has a powerful effect on appetite suppression and increased mitochondrial activity.

A 50% decrease in food intake was seen by the second day of treatment with 80 mg EGCG/kg BW. The EGCG effect on food intake was not dependent on an intact leptin receptor, as the leptin receptor-defective obese Zucker rats also responded to EGCG. - Modulation of Endocrine Systems and Food Intake by Green Tea Epigallocatechin Gallate, Yung-Hsi Kao, Endocrinology Vol. 141, No. 3 980-987 2001

the article then goes on to say that they measured other hormone levels, before and after administration [of EGCG], and that they remained unchanged. though not all of the hormones specific to feelings of satiety were checked.

my opinion, while not very technical and mostly conjecture based on personal anecdote, is that: the given rise in satiation is due in large part to the increased oxidation of triglycerides/lipids/free fatty acids by the mitochrondia. from experience and based upon what i've read on EGCG it seems like the satiation is primarily thus, and while it may be biphasic, with a more immediate suppression of hunger through an antagonism or agonism of hormones specific to feelings of "hunger" the 1 day delay in satiation as well as increased oxidation of bodyfat lends me to believe EGCG's satiety effect works primarily by increasing fatty acid oxidation at the mitochondrial levels, as this effect does invariably reduce appetite and increase feelings of satiation. i don't know the mechanism of this specific to EGCG, or if it occurs in specific cells or not because there aren't a lot of detailed studies done on "why" but rather studies simply confirming that this stuff, EGCG, works.

Healthy young men underwent three 24-h testing periods in a metabolic chamber to examine whether 2 capsules of a green tea extract containing 50 mg caffeine and 90 mg EGCG, taken 3 times/d, stimulated thermogenesis to a greater extent than did caffeine alone or placebo. Twenty-four-hour EE (energy expenditure) with green tea extract treatment was greater than that with caffeine and placebo—9867 kJ (2360.5 kcal) and 9599 (2296.4 kcal) and 9538 kJ (2281.8 kcal), respectively—which corresponds to an increase of 2.8% and 3.5% over the EE with caffeine and placebo, respectively. The 24-h respiratory quotient with green tea extract treatment was lower than that with caffeine and placebo—0.852 compared with 0.873 and 0.881, respectively—which is indicative of greater fat oxidation with green tea extract treatment. It was concluded that oral administration of a green tea extract stimulated thermogenesis and fat oxidation and, therefore, that green tea extract has the potential to influence body weight and body composition - Efficacy of a green tea extract rich in catechin polyphenols and caffeine in increasing 24-h energy expenditure and fat oxidation in humans, Dulloo, AG, Am J Clin Nutr 1999;70:1040–5

and another study regarding the efficacy of EGCG in appetite suppression

Dulloo et al (33) also confirmed the mechanism of action of the green tea extract in an in vitro experiment. This experiment showed that the green tea extract significantly increased the rate of intrascapular brown adipose tissue oxygen uptake, but caffeine alone did not. The authors concluded that the green tea extract was a more effective potentiator of sympathetically mediated thermogenesis than was caffeine alone. In humans, this green tea extract was also found to reduce body weight by 4.6% and waist circumference by 4.5% when 2 capsules were taken twice daily for 12 wk as part of a regular, self-selected diet (34). Each capsule contained 375 mg catechins, including 270 mg EGCG. - Recent findings of green tea extract AR25 (Exolise) and its activity for the treatment of obesity, Chantre P, Phytomedicine 2002;9:3–8

ideally, EGCG should be taken in the form of a pill/capsule supplement, because the EGCG content within tea is insufficient (unless drank it by the gallon) @ only 30mg/cup in regular store-bought green tea, and considering the allometric conversion for dosage listed in the first study gives a human equivalent of 7.4gr of EGCG for a 100kg person per day - a lot. that is excessive, and probably unhealthy, however 1.2gr - 0.8gr of EGCG is sufficient for purposes of appetite suppression, especially when caffeine or another beta adrenal receptor agonist is used concomitantly. it also should be taken on an empty stomach or before protein dense meals are consumed as the protein interferes with absorption.
there is one last thing worthy of mention w/r/t EGCG and that is it being a 5-alpha reductase 1 inhibitor, though, not really something i feel like getting into at the moment because for most people it's going to be largely irrelevant and talking about all this shit made me hungry as hell.

this is simply one means of appetite suppression, as the effects of hunger are multifaceted, occurring for different reasons in different individuals. namely, hunger pangs are more closely associated with ghrelin and a circadian rhythm releasing ghrelin at certain points when meals are often had, or when food is thought/smelt and a feeling of emptiness in the stomach, a void, that needs to be filled with something, an object, anything - yet not necessarily alongside fullbody feelings of starvation. cravings, more specifically fullbody cravings and cravings for carbs are more associated with insulin resistance and cell starvation, which will persist once again merely a few hours after eating a meal as insulin levels begin to subside. alpha lipoic acid and a lowcarb diet alongside exercise is an effective means of combating the latter, while the former generally becomes nonexistent a day or two into the diet (especially with the aid of appetite suppressants).

That's cool and all, but if you were training enough to feel the need to take that as a supplement, wouldn't you burn enough calories to not get fat anyway. maybe people just need to eat better diets instead of taking weird potions. forgive me if that's wrong and heretical

Myfanwy posted:

That's cool and all, but if you were training enough to feel the need to take that as a supplement, wouldn't you burn enough calories to not get fat anyway. maybe people just need to eat better diets instead of taking weird potions. forgive me if that's wrong and heretical

this doesn't have anything to do with "Training" specifically: it's an appetite suppressant. and even still, with respect to the rest: no.

joel posted:

mon - thurs i start by reading war books on the way home (currently its war nerd by brecher/dolan). when i get in i am usually (and then syntheticully) pumped enuff to handle some convict conditioning. been listening to a lot of killer mike, old chemical brothers n disfear.
also: i think anthony davis' unibrow only function is to take away the attention his weird ass hairline would receive. he's also patented a few unibrow terms already with stern.

uhgg.... chemical brothers and convict training. i'm vomiting metaphorically here, joel.

damn, disgusting. put on some disturbed and deadlift 500 pounds like a Real person.

I like tea during the cooler months but I live in the south where it was 105 yesterday with a heat index of 120. By the time it cools down enough to make tea it's 2 AM. What can I do to get my tea cooler faster?

palafox posted:

a bunch of my work involves leaving me physically drained at the end of the day and I do a moderate amount (3hrs a day, btwn 4-6 days a week) of sports that also wear me right out. I'm hoping to find time to lift as well for the sake of shining competitive sport dominance, but i'm way exhausted as it is, and it's hard to find energy for real life and the internet on top of this. Anyone have any diet tips or otherwise to make recovery quicker and easier?

take amphetamines

palafox posted:

a bunch of my work involves leaving me physically drained at the end of the day and I do a moderate amount (3hrs a day, btwn 4-6 days a week) of sports that also wear me right out. I'm hoping to find time to lift as well for the sake of shining competitive sport dominance, but i'm way exhausted as it is, and it's hard to find energy for real life and the internet on top of this. Anyone have any diet tips or otherwise to make recovery quicker and easier?

don't be a pussy

deadken posted:

whatever your situation, take amphetamines

this really can't be stressed enough