animedad posted:
i dont think anyone is saying that the OWS people are stupid or that they shouldnt be doing what they're doing. maybe it's part of a process that will end up being effective in some way, it's impossible to tell. im a big believer we need an authentic event to jump on board, amidst inevitable confusion and skepticism and uncertainty.
it's hard to get on board in this particular event, though, in a country where simulation has reached such an advanced level. going to a protest sort of feels like going back in time. it feels like participating in a a moment swept up in nostalgia-- packaged, simulated, not real-- like goign to a concert of an old punk band that just inexplicably reunited. it's funny how something that meant a lot to history could become so placid and doesnt make me excited or powerful in the least bit. we need something new.
the protests never really meant anything without the crazies behind them, the people the fbi were working overtime to wreck - NoI, WU, and those various other demons of the sixties. so now we're having protests without the actually dangerous radicals, it's like zizek's old jokes about cream without fat, coffee without caffeine, and so on
discipline posted:
they want higher minimum wage and health care too!
no they dont lol
Impper posted:
um yeah you just agreed with what i said?
not really, i agreed the strength of the Bolsheviks wasn't in their class character, (few of the leaders were Genuine Proletarians and Lenin was quite explicit about socialist ideology coming to the workers "from without"), or in their theory, (which was arguably weaker than that of, say, the Spartacists, who obviously fared much worse), but disagreed with the idea that there could have been a non-revolutionary Bolshevik organization or that the people who made up the Bolsheviks were somehow destined to succeed.
Lessons posted:
Impper posted:
um yeah you just agreed with what i said?
not really, i agreed the strength of the Bolsheviks wasn't in their class character, (few of the leaders were Genuine Proletarians and Lenin was quite explicit about socialist ideology coming to the workers "from without"), or in their theory, (which was arguably weaker than that of, say, the Spartacists, who obviously fared much worse), but disagreed with the idea that there could have been a non-revolutionary Bolshevik organization or that the people who made up the Bolsheviks were somehow destined to succeed.
the constitution of the bolsheviks meant that they would never have been anything but revolutionary - the question was which revolutionary flag to fly?
thinking about it some more, i think that there can occasionally be such conglomerations of briliant human capital that success is more likely than not, though this obviously doesn't speak of all the failed revolutions
animedad posted:
lets not make this into old lf where every other discussion reverted back to the Truth about arcane russian history
Agreed.
Ruschat ends here.
Goethestein posted:
russians are subhuman imo
well then that makes you nothuman, doesnt it, my lil goat boy of the desert
Goethestein posted:
its cool how
Tsargon posted:
rus-chat owns, also the bolsheviks won because they were the most ruthless + disciplined. both of those attributes would probably work against a contemporary American dissident organization tho, as the American political machine + police apparatus is still more than strong enough to hammer down whichever nail sticks out the most.
this is sort of what i'm thinking about in the book i'm writing now... ruthless & disciplined doesnt have to = loud!! in fact your discipline will mean you won't stick out to police apparatus... but it is still a great challenge, a very great challenge... will it be met?
aerdil posted:heres part 2, the better part too
this is kind of crazy!
http://www.livestream.com/occupyboston/
Goethestein posted:
if you hurry you can see them get stomped in boston
http://www.livestream.com/occupyboston/
200 police in riot gear eh
Goethestein posted:its cool how the apelike brutality and incompetence of the russian "people" managed to destroy any hope that communism would ever work
drwhat posted:aerdil posted:heres part 2, the better part too
this is kind of crazy!
Good Speech Zizek
there is some guy with a thick russian accent covering it on globalrevolution and hes kinda annoying and he reminds me that red saw fish guy lives in boston
we'll see tomorrow i guess, it looks like seattle was just sent a threat and not actually raided
discipline posted:
had to get the vets first. they have combat skills.
Goethestein posted:
i was just at occupyboston, i can confirm that there were at least 200 cops there and they arrested at least 50 people. then they destroyed their tents and signs in a garbage truck compactor
lol
germanjoey posted:
this is the first zizek speech ive ever seen where he wasnt molesting his face with his hands. the soapbox is a pretty good medium for him!
yeah i noticed that too. he's really into this
it's all getting Interesting
i guess there is a thing planned, sort of, here in Montreal but it seems silly to occupy something in one of the nicest socialist places ever that i just moved to. i will probably drop by anyway
