#1
[account deactivated]
#2
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
it's because of antisemitism. palestinians have a life expectancy at birth of about 74. many whole nations in africa have life expectancies of near half that. a few thousand palestinians might die over many years because of conflict-related bombings and shootings by the israelis. in the congo, four million people died. the palestinian conflict is a minor one but it involves jews against muslims mostly so muslims overreact and jews feign terror.
#3
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
preemptive apology for not posting good, i need to get back into practice:

i think that a non-trivial factor is the iconoclastic/anti-establishment/anti-authoritarian personality-type that gravitates toward leftist activism.

conventional political wisdom in the US for many decades has had among its cornerstones that anti-semitism is a powerful historical and contemporary force in the world, that israel is an island of democracy and righteousness in a sea of irrational hatred, etc. that israel is 'our' 'ally', etc

budding leftists of this stripe quickly come to realize that 'they've been lied to', etc and react viscerally in opposition/rejection of the conventional narrative.

other causes, while often substantively similar and/or morally comparable, may not appear as obviously a product of cultural/media manipulation, thus not provoking as intense a counterreaction

i think?

Edited by gyrofry ()

#4
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
also you don't see a lot of campuses with large clubs with a lot of muslims and leftists dedicated to Freedom for Chechnya.
#5
[account deactivated]
#6
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
US and Israel have a special relationship
#7
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~
Yeah, I think a lot of it is that Israel is so blatantly a US client state that it makes responsibility clearer than for a lot of US-backed governments. Political activists are more likely to criticize the things their government does than the things other governments do.
#8
Kurdt
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:
Israel is so blatantly a US client state

don't go all chomsky now

#9
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
For example, there is a moral difference between support for Palestine and support for Tibet. There is some overlap though in principle, which is interesting.
#10
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:
Yeah, I think a lot of it is that Israel is so blatantly a US client state



Strike that reverse it wikka wikka ZOG jigga

#11
[account deactivated]
#12
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

babyfinland posted:
For example, there is a moral difference between support for Palestine and support for Tibet. There is some overlap though in principle, which is interesting.

what is the difference?

The PRC treats Tibetans well.

#13
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

babyfinland posted:
For example, there is a moral difference between support for Palestine and support for Tibet. There is some overlap though in principle, which is interesting.

what is the difference?



I guess to get the ball rolling on that question I'd offer something like the difference of the constitution of the nation that would develop freely from the colonial oppressor. Whether or not it's true, the popular conceit is that Tibet would be democratic and free while Palestine is dangerously Muslim

#14
Kurdt
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

babyfinland posted:
For example, there is a moral difference between support for Palestine and support for Tibet. There is some overlap though in principle, which is interesting.

what is the difference?

gonna go with tibetan nationalism is at least to some degree a vehicle for US foreign policy

#15
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:

discipline posted:

babyfinland posted:
For example, there is a moral difference between support for Palestine and support for Tibet. There is some overlap though in principle, which is interesting.

what is the difference?

The PRC treats Tibetans well.



thats obscenely wrong. china colonizes tibet and east turkestan using literally the exact same methods as israelis

#16
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
I guess to get the ball rolling on that question I'd offer something like the difference of the constitution of the nation that would develop freely from the colonial oppressor. Whether or not it's true, the popular conceit is that Tibet would be democratic and free while Palestine is dangerously Muslim

it's funny because Tibet used to be a theocracy until China intervened.

#17
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

Cycloneboy posted:

discipline posted:

babyfinland posted:
For example, there is a moral difference between support for Palestine and support for Tibet. There is some overlap though in principle, which is interesting.

what is the difference?

The PRC treats Tibetans well.

thats obscenely wrong. china colonizes tibet and east turkestan using literally the exact same methods as israelis


umm, counterpoint.

#18
[account deactivated]
#19
Kurdt
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

gyrofry posted:
gonna go with tibetan nationalism is at least to some degree a vehicle for US foreign policy

believe it or not, so is palestinian nationalism

ok can you flesh that out for me

#20
[account deactivated]
#21
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
The PRC killed over a million people in Tibet when they invaded and have been colonizing it with ethnic Han Chinese ever since
#22
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

Cycloneboy posted:
Yeah, I think a lot of it is that Israel is so blatantly a US client state that it makes responsibility clearer than for a lot of US-backed governments. Political activists are more likely to criticize the things their government does than the things other governments do.

lmao jesus read a book kid

I read lots of books, would you care to actually engage my points?

#23
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
The PRC killed over a million people in Tibet when they invaded and have been colonizing it with ethnic Han Chinese ever since

the USA killed over a million people in its territory too.

#24
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:

babyfinland posted:
The PRC killed over a million people in Tibet when they invaded and have been colonizing it with ethnic Han Chinese ever since

the USA killed over a million people in its territory too.



ya but the iroquois confederacy practiced cannibalism and were expansionist war mongers so its ok

#25
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
ya but the iroquois confederacy practiced cannibalism and were expansionist war mongers so its ok

tibet was a brutal theocracy.

#26
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:

babyfinland posted:
ya but the iroquois confederacy practiced cannibalism and were expansionist war mongers so its ok

tibet was a brutal theocracy.



good thing they have a brutal secular colonial regime now i guess. progress is freedom

#27
[account deactivated]
#28
[account deactivated]
#29
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
thats typical of US / CIA policy, supporting both sides of a given conflict in order to control the situation overall towards our own ends.
#30
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

Cycloneboy posted:

babyfinland posted:
ya but the iroquois confederacy practiced cannibalism and were expansionist war mongers so its ok

tibet was a brutal theocracy.

good thing they have a brutal secular colonial regime now i guess. progress is freedom

Tibetans are still alive and well, whereas most native Americans were ruthlessly murdered to the point of near-extinction.

#31
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:

babyfinland posted:

Cycloneboy posted:

babyfinland posted:
ya but the iroquois confederacy practiced cannibalism and were expansionist war mongers so its ok

tibet was a brutal theocracy.

good thing they have a brutal secular colonial regime now i guess. progress is freedom

Tibetans are still alive and well, whereas most native Americans were ruthlessly murdered to the point of near-extinction.



where are you going with this

btw you sound like an israeli, ive literally heard the exact same arguments from zionists

#32
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
first I want to know why you think israel is a client state of USA

because we give them loads of money.

#33
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
btw you sound like an israeli, ive literally heard the exact same arguments from zionists

Unlike Palestine/Israel, Tibet is a) part of the legal territory of China and b) has special legal rights in contradistinction to the Han majority (e.g. ethnic minorities are exempt from the family planning policy).

#34
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
maybe it's an imaginary distinction in my mind, but it seems to me more like in the palestinian case the US is attempting to exert a measure of influence over a nationalist movement for the primary purpose of blunting/subverting/channeling it in directions acceptable to the zionist consensus whereas in the tibetan case the US is artificially propping a movement up for the primary purpose of weakening its great power rival.
#35
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
The Tibetan movement isn't "artificial" but yeah it's definitely supported by the US for the purposes of undermining the rival Chinese empire.
#36
[account deactivated]
#37
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Cycloneboy posted:

babyfinland posted:
btw you sound like an israeli, ive literally heard the exact same arguments from zionists

Unlike Palestine/Israel, Tibet is a) part of the legal territory of China and b) has special legal rights in contradistinction to the Han majority (e.g. ethnic minorities are exempt from the family planning policy).



irrelevant

#38
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
right and i should be clear that i'm totally ignorant about tibet except that i know the beastie boys like it and i have eaten at some fine tibetan restaurants
#39
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
lowtax is my client state
#40
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

Cycloneboy posted:
because we give them loads of money.

by that logic, why, the UK was client state of the Shah of Iran!!!!! ZOINKS!!!!

Iran's stuff was taken, the US's is given.