meanwhile, big tobacco also concedes to the advertising campaigns, the smoking restrictions and bans, all the negative press. why do they do this? simple. it becomes another component of their marketing strategy. first of all, the official disapproval of smoking allows smoking to become a transgressive act. smokers gather in circles and spiritedly discuss their latest persecutions, much like discipline is attempting to do now. they make all sorts of equivocating arguments about other unhealthy habits that people have and mock the schoolmarmish attitudes of the prudish anti-smoking crusaders. they argue tobacco as an issue of personal freedom, or if they are leftist, they portray people against tobacco as being 'classist' because poor people and minorities smoke cigarettes too.
this culture of transgression is what sticks in the public consciousness. the anti-tobacco memes have less staying power because they are virtually owned by the tobacco companies themselves, and they have barely any effect on individual smokers who are confronted with them. in fact, the repetition of the negative effects of tobacco creates fatigue in the public consciousness, further allowing the pro-smoking viewpoint to win by default. this is why tobacco company profits always skyrocket. the point is to offer a remedy to the smoking epidemic that does not actually stop people from smoking. the tobacco industry has been doing this for decades, and they are the best at it. you are their unwitting pawns.
i must vehemently disagree with y'all's choice to take the libertarian standpoint on tobacco. youve been hoodwinked. bamboozled. bushwhacked.
on the other hand smoking bans in public housing and higher sales taxes are explicitly an attack on the poor so
bonclay posted:actually, the campaign against tobacco is one of history's greatest examples of an in-house resistance movement that is doomed to fail. the tobacco industry takes a few PR hits in the public arena after it comes out that smoking is poisonous and destructive to the body. so what do the tobacco companies do? to pay their "penance", they start a new branch of the industry! now, "quitting smoking" is a wholly owned subsidiary of big tobacco. all of the useless products, the patches, the gums, the quack medicines. all of these draw out the quitting process and thereby reduce the chances of success. the consumer is caught in a double bind where the tobacco company receives money either way.
meanwhile, big tobacco also concedes to the advertising campaigns, the smoking restrictions and bans, all the negative press. why do they do this? simple. it becomes another component of their marketing strategy. first of all, the official disapproval of smoking allows smoking to become a transgressive act. smokers gather in circles and spiritedly discuss their latest persecutions, much like discipline is attempting to do now. they make all sorts of equivocating arguments about other unhealthy habits that people have and mock the schoolmarmish attitudes of the prudish anti-smoking crusaders. they argue tobacco as an issue of personal freedom, or if they are leftist, they portray people against tobacco as being 'classist' because poor people and minorities smoke cigarettes too.
this culture of transgression is what sticks in the public consciousness. the anti-tobacco memes have less staying power because they are virtually owned by the tobacco companies themselves, and they have barely any effect on individual smokers who are confronted with them. in fact, the repetition of the negative effects of tobacco creates fatigue in the public consciousness, further allowing the pro-smoking viewpoint to win by default. this is why tobacco company profits always skyrocket. the point is to offer a remedy to the smoking epidemic that does not actually stop people from smoking. the tobacco industry has been doing this for decades, and they are the best at it. you are their unwitting pawns.
i've heard all this before and it has some merits but it ignores the fact that smoking rates have gone way down and it's gone from being a habit without class connotations to one closely associated with the poor and working classes. the tobacco companies didn't win the battle and are surviving only via diversification imo
thirdplace posted:the tobacco companies didn't win the battle and are surviving only via diversification imo
diversification has always been a part of how the tobacco industry works though.
even before phillip morris and rj reynolds started buying food companies, real estate holdings, law firms, banks, etc. etc. in the 50s, james buchanan duke set up his own power company to run his textile mills in the 1890s in addition to essentially buying out several colleges as a tax dodge
girdles_gone_wild posted:Chinese cigarettes are the bomb. Double Happiness for 4 kuwai can't beat it
i used to smoke huangshans a lot, i cant remember why
discipline posted:philip morris and rj reynolds basically gave in to anti-smoking legislation in the USA in return for unfettered access to china
how do you figure this worked, why would china give a fuck what anti-smoking legislation is enacted in the US? also im pretty sure i never once saw an american brand being smoked in china
discipline posted:cell phones give people brain cancer.
discipline posted:cell phones give people brain cancer.
discipline posted:cell phones give people brain cancer.
discipline posted:cell phones give people brain cancer.
discipline posted:shennong posted:how do you figure this worked, why would china give a fuck what anti-smoking legislation is enacted in the US? also im pretty sure i never once saw an american brand being smoked in china
as I read it In The Literature they got free trade agreements facilitated by american interests as a consolation prize. china entered WTO in 2001 and foreign tobacco was the biggest lobby in their support. I don't know when you were there but not all cigarettes manufactured and sold by philip morris have an american brand slapped on them
that makes sense about the first part. i'm pretty sure the only notable PM brand in china is marlboro, do you know of any other PM brands sold in China that are chinese-marked? almost all of the brands i saw being smoked on a regular basis were indigenous. that said i wasnt hanging out w/ ppl who were doing the status signaling thing with western brands so i may have missed that dimension
shennong posted:discipline posted:shennong posted:how do you figure this worked, why would china give a fuck what anti-smoking legislation is enacted in the US? also im pretty sure i never once saw an american brand being smoked in china
as I read it In The Literature they got free trade agreements facilitated by american interests as a consolation prize. china entered WTO in 2001 and foreign tobacco was the biggest lobby in their support. I don't know when you were there but not all cigarettes manufactured and sold by philip morris have an american brand slapped on them
that makes sense about the first part. i'm pretty sure the only notable PM brand in china is marlboro, do you know of any other PM brands sold in China that are chinese-marked? almost all of the brands i saw being smoked on a regular basis were indigenous. that said i wasnt hanging out w/ ppl who were doing the status signaling thing with western brands so i may have missed that dimension
After more than three years of negotiations with the Chinese government, PMI is expected this year to begin marketing three home-grown brands. The smokes -- selected from hundreds of varieties produced by state-run China National Tobacco Corp. -- will be sold in Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Latin America, according to PMI.
The launch is slated for sometime in the next six months. It is part of a December 2005 deal in which Philip Morris agreed to market Chinese brands internationally in exchange for the right to produce its own Marlboro brand at state-owned factories. At the moment, Philip Morris is limited to importing its cigarettes for sale in China and is restricted by stringent quotas.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120156034185223519.html
sorry for wsjsplaining. and no, i don't know what they consider "stringent quotas"
LandBeluga posted:shennong posted:discipline posted:shennong posted:how do you figure this worked, why would china give a fuck what anti-smoking legislation is enacted in the US? also im pretty sure i never once saw an american brand being smoked in china
as I read it In The Literature they got free trade agreements facilitated by american interests as a consolation prize. china entered WTO in 2001 and foreign tobacco was the biggest lobby in their support. I don't know when you were there but not all cigarettes manufactured and sold by philip morris have an american brand slapped on them
that makes sense about the first part. i'm pretty sure the only notable PM brand in china is marlboro, do you know of any other PM brands sold in China that are chinese-marked? almost all of the brands i saw being smoked on a regular basis were indigenous. that said i wasnt hanging out w/ ppl who were doing the status signaling thing with western brands so i may have missed that dimension
After more than three years of negotiations with the Chinese government, PMI is expected this year to begin marketing three home-grown brands. The smokes -- selected from hundreds of varieties produced by state-run China National Tobacco Corp. -- will be sold in Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Latin America, according to PMI.
The launch is slated for sometime in the next six months. It is part of a December 2005 deal in which Philip Morris agreed to market Chinese brands internationally in exchange for the right to produce its own Marlboro brand at state-owned factories. At the moment, Philip Morris is limited to importing its cigarettes for sale in China and is restricted by stringent quotas.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120156034185223519.html
sorry for wsjsplaining. and no, i don't know what they consider "stringent quotas"
thats pm marketing chinese smokes overseas though. i'm pretty sure they odn't have any brands in china other than marlboro, and chinese people dont smoke marlboros