#641
desire be, desire go
Post rating: ~
looking for a suitable article to post at friends and family on facebook, i find this as the first hit on google news

http://www.slate.com/blogs/breakingviews/2012/04/16/argentina_nationalizes_oil_and_gas_company_ypf_repsol_should_fight_back_.html
#642
Post rating: ~
the vitriol with which the entire world reacted to this minus venezuela and a handful of other countries is really impressive
#643
Post rating: ~

statickinetics posted:
“No one in their right mind would invest in a country that expropriates investments,” Calderon said today in Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico, according to a transcript of his remarks during the World Economic Forum on Latin America.

“This is absolutely a not very responsible measure,” Calderon said. “It is clearly in violation of treaties and accords about the reciprocity of investments.”



so its like mexico, honduras, and colombia that are still in America's corner w/r/t this sort of stuff and even honduras / colombia are getting leary right?

#644
Post rating: ~

Tsargon posted:
so its like mexico, honduras, and colombia that are still in America's corner w/r/t this sort of stuff and even honduras / colombia are getting leary right?



p much yeah but there are more and more countries, particularly in south america that are turning away from the US and i think this is going to be a good test. venezuela has been at the forefront trying to unite south america within new regional blocs

#645
Post rating: ~
from what my bro tells me (hes working there atm) regular colombians are starting to think maybe all those harvard-educated Uribistas dont necessarily know anything about running a south american country, theres no other paradigm in the frame as of yet mind so barring Glorious Revolution (unlikely) nothings likely to happen soon
#646
Post rating: +
new bloomberg article* which relates that the billionaire spanish family what had owned YPF is looking at default because they had "counted on YPF dividend payments of as much as 90 percent of profit to repay Repsol and about $680 million of loans with banks including Citigroup Inc. (C)." so its a good example of what m. hudson's always talking about, wherein the world is in a constant spiral of leveraged buyouts with more and more productive income being pledged as interest

* http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-17/billionaire-eskenazis-confront-repsol-debt-after-ypf-seizure-1-.html
#647
Post rating: +
ahahaha eat shit spanish crapitalists
#648
Post rating: ~
Argentina kind of owns
#649
Post rating: ~
Actually Argentina is the worst country in LAtin America and Argentinians are the worst people on the planet
#650
Post rating: ~

EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
Actually Argentina is the worst country in LAtin America and Argentinians are the worst people on the planet



Fucked up, but true

#651
Post rating: ~
this is interesting:

Repsol tried to sell a controlling stake in its Argentinian oil company to a Chinese energy group before it was nationalised by Buenos Aires, according to two people familiar with the talks.

The secret attempt to sell its 57 per cent interest in YPF to the Chinese buyer, which one person involved identified as Sinopec, broke down after the Argentinian government announced on Monday that it would expropriate 51 per cent of the company. Repsol wanted more than $10bn for its stake and did not advise Buenos Aires of the discussions with Sinopec, which the Spanish group hoped to finalise before seeking formal endorsement from Cristina Fernández, Argentine president.

The Argentinian government holds a golden share in YPF and any deal would have required state approval. Sinopec holds 40 per cent of Repsol’s Brazilian operations. Repsol declined to comment. Sinopec could not be reached for comment.

also:


"Companies that operate in Argentina, even when their shareholders are foreign, are Argentine companies. Don't anyone forget that," the fiery Fernandez said on Monday, standing beside an image depicting famous first lady Evita Peron, to whom fellow Peronist Fernandez is sometimes compared.

Argentina's move on YPF, which was fully state-owned for 70 years before its privatization, is thought to be one of the biggest takeovers in the natural resources field since the seizure of Russia's Yukos oil giant a decade ago.

But it follows a steady trend toward resource nationalism in commodities-rich Latin American countries governed by leftists such as President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and Bolivian President Evo Morales, both close allies of Fernandez.

Chavez applauded her move and rejected European "threats and efforts at intimidation."
#652
Post rating: ~
hear hear, har har!
#653
Post rating: ~

EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
Actually Argentina is the worst country in LAtin America and Argentinians are the worst people on the planet



actually it's brazil. have you ever played HoN or Dota with a Brazilian?!?!

#654
Post rating: ~

statickinetics posted:
“No one in their right mind would invest in a country that expropriates investments,” Calderon said today in Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico, according to a transcript of his remarks during the World Economic Forum on Latin America.

“This is absolutely a not very responsible measure,” Calderon said. “It is clearly in violation of treaties and accords about the reciprocity of investments.”



YESSSS

#655
Post rating: +
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/business/debt-collector-is-faulted-for-tough-tactics-in-hospitals.html

Hospital patients waiting in an emergency room or convalescing after surgery are being confronted by an unexpected visitor: a debt collector at bedside.

This and other aggressive tactics by one of the nation’s largest collectors of medical debts, Accretive Health, were revealed on Tuesday by the Minnesota attorney general, raising concerns that such practices have become common at hospitals across the country.

The tactics, like embedding debt collectors as employees in emergency rooms and demanding that patients pay before receiving treatment, were outlined in hundreds of company documents released by the attorney general. And they cast a spotlight on the increasingly desperate strategies among hospitals to recoup payments as their unpaid debts mount.

To patients, the debt collectors may look indistinguishable from hospital employees, may demand they pay outstanding bills and may discourage them from seeking emergency care at all, even using scripts like those in collection boiler rooms, according to the documents and employees interviewed by The New York Times.

In some cases, the company’s workers had access to health information while persuading patients to pay overdue bills, possibly in violation of federal privacy laws, the documents indicate.

#656
Post rating: ~
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17836861

Donald Trump is not known for subtlety.

With trademark hair and trademark chutzpah, he strides onto his golf course at the Menie Estate in Aberdeenshire.

"How's it looking?" I ask him.

"The greatest in the world," is his simple reply.

And, sculpted from shifting sand dunes, the course is impressive.

But plans for a hotel and hundreds of homes on the site, near the village of Balmedie, north of Aberdeen, are on hold.

The tycoon says he won't build them if a windfarm is constructed just offshore.

He has support from some of his neighbours.

One woman, who didn't want to be named, told me that she liked the golf course. It had put up the price of her house, and she didn't care for the wind farm.

But at least one man looking down over the dunes reckons the American has a cheek.

David Milne lives in an old coastguard station, Hermit Point.

It used to be a lonely building perched high above the dunes with, naturally, an amazing view.

No more.

The vista has been blocked by a line of Trump's trees - sitka spruces - which were planted, says the tycoon, to "beautify" the course.

"It's just an example of arrogance and selfish inconsistency," says Mr Milne of Mr Trump.

"He has destroyed an area of outstanding natural beauty, a Site of Special Scientific Interest, and now he's arguing about something that's a mile away and will barely be visible."

How visible is a matter of perspective.

If the wind farm is approved there will be 11 turbines, to be used a testing ground for the latest technology.


Work on Mr Trump's Aberdeenshire golf course is continuing despite the windfarm controversy
According to its Swedish developers, Vattenfall, the nearest turbine will be around a mile-and-a-half offshore and around two-and-a-half miles from Mr Trump's land.

David Rodger of Vattenfall insists the golfers won't mind.

"We very much believe there is room for both projects," he tells us, looking out over the North Sea from the top of the Aberdeen Exhibition and Conference Centre tower.

The firm wants to be "good neighbours" with the Trump Organisation, he insists.

Nonetheless, Mr Rodger points out that the project was first suggested in 2004, some time before Donald Trump began his battle to build nearby.

And Vattenfall (waterfall in Swedish) has won praise from an unlikely source.

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds say they have found the company willing to engage with their concerns about the wind farm.

On the dramatic sand dunes to the south of the golf course, the charity's area manager for north east Scotland, Ian Francis, scans the sky with his binoculars.

Overhead is the sweet song of a skylark.


David Milne believes trees planted by Mr Trump are more of an eyesore than the windfarm
The landscape is like a wild, untamed playpark of towering dunes, pristine sand and spiky grasses.

This is what the Trump land looked like before the development began.

It is, claims Mr Francis, the only such stretch of coastline in Britain and much of it, he says, has already been destroyed.

"The damage has been done, regardless of whatever happens now."

Mr Francis doesn't sound that keen on windfarms either. But Vattenfall appear to be winning him round.

"The development has changed enormously over the eight or nine years that this has been brewing up," he says.

"There's been a lot of dialogue... and we are hopeful that we can find a solution to the 11 turbines which are proposed at the moment that means that we are fairly sure the impacts on birds will be minimal."

This, he notes, contrasts with the approach of the Trump Organisation.

Back at the course, Donald Trump himself is on bullish form as he tells me he'll start phase two of the development "as soon as the windfarm idea is killed".

But what if that doesn't happen and the windfarm gets the go-ahead?

"Well I'll have to make a determination at some time, but this is a much bigger project in total than the windfarms and frankly if they do it and they destroy Scotland they will have committed a terrible error," he responds.

On Wednesday, Donald Trump takes his argument against windfarms to the Scottish Parliament.

As he left the course, he had some advice for the reporters.

"Remember, Trump's a nice guy."

Is he? The politicians are now finding out.

#657
Post rating: ~
ECONOMIC SCIENCE ladies and gentlemen

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/world/africa/using-us-dollars-zimbabwe-finds-a-problem-no-change.html

According to the United States Federal Reserve, at least five countries have officially adopted the United States dollar as their currency. Several more, like Zimbabwe, use it almost exclusively but hold on to a national currency, even if it is not in circulation.

But United States coins seldom circulate more than 100 miles beyond the country’s borders because of their weight and high shipping costs.

Most countries that use the dollar get around this problem by minting local coins: Ecuador uses the dollar as legal tender but mints centavo coins. The government guarantees that anyone who wants to exchange 100 Ecuadorean centavos for a genuine United States dollar can do so.



http://homepage.newschool.edu/~het/schools/bullion.htm

In the 18th Century, there was a clearing-house system of banking in the United Kingdom. Banknotes, which circulated as money, were issued by private banks. These bearer notes were claims on gold held by the bank - hence the common preamble which still persists in modern Bank of England notes, "I promise to pay the bearer on demand X pounds." In that time period, that promise was actually true: a person could take a note to the bank which issued it and ask for it to be exchanged for gold. Thus, for a long time, all paper notes were issued by private banks on the basis of the gold they had in their vaults.

In Scotland, however, there was a slight exception: banknotes often had a clause that allowed the bank to suspend convertibility. Although banks were legally required to pay the bearer in gold bullion, they could temporarily suspend that conversion should they find that necessary. The suspension clause in Scottish banks was the way that system responded to clearing house "bullying" trick - whereby several banks would surreptitiously hold back notes issued by bank Z and then, one day, they would all collectively unload the notes upon bank Z and demand redemption. Naturally, as it was a fractional reserve banking system, bank Z would not be able to redeem them all. If convertibility was required by law, then bank Z would have to declare bankruptcy. This sort of ruination by a clearing house cartel against a loner bank was not uncommon in Europe and North America. Thus, Scottish law allowed for a temporary suspension of convertibility. This clause, however, was banned in 1765 and henceforth Scottish banks were required to pay the full amount on demand.

However, in 1797, rumors that French soldiers had landed on English soil led to a widespread bank run in Britain. Customers hurried to their banks demanding immediate redemption of their notes in gold bullion. The British government, realizing the dangerous consequences of the run allowed banks to suspend convertibility of the notes issued by the Bank of England.

The crisis, then, was properly averted, but the government did not quickly restore convertibility. Rather, they permitted banks to continue issuing notes without necessarily respecting their convertibility into gold. An intellectual debate proceeded immediately as lawyers, bankers and statesmen lined up for and against the maintenance of convertibility of notes into gold. On the one hand, there were the "Bullionist" group, which argued for convertibility; arrayed on the other side were the "Anti-Bullionist" who preferred the status quo of suspension.

#658
Post rating: +
meh... ok...
So... for my Global Economics course, one of our major projects or whatever was to read an economic related book and then give a 30 minutes presentation or so about it. I chose Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber, because that book fucking owns and the topic is really interesting. Well... today I presented the book to the class. Started from the beginning, talked about the various historical events and ideas and worked my way up to the present and related a lot of the stuff to current events in the eurozone (Greeks burning tax records, for example).

It all went well and then it ended, but then the professor just started kind of ranting and claiming the stuff I was presenting was false, wrong, etc. It was really weird, because I was just like, "uhhh so what exactly is wrong about it?"
Like... he went off about the origins of coinage. I talked about how coins were originally to pay soldiers and stuff, but he said this was wrong. Sure enough, he posed the whole econ 101 origins of money, "Imagine you own some horses, but you want cows" type bullshit. I was just thinking to myself... "Did you not listen to what I was saying? That shit is a myth." But then again I know he wasn't paying attention during the presentation because he didn't even pay attention to any of the presentations this week or last week sooooooo.

I kept asking him precisely what his critiques were, but he would only reply with stuff like, "Just think about it logically... it's all ridiculous!" He eventually started asking me question that had nothing to do with my presentation.

He kept pressing and asking me, "Is inflation bad?" I was kind of stunned because I wasn't sure what he was getting at and the question is just so inane to begin with. I said, "Well if you tell me the context in which the inflation occurs, I could tell you if it was bad or not."

"No... in theory, is inflation bad?"

"How can I genuinely answer that if it's not set in a certain context or situation?"

"Just tell me... is inflation bad in theory?"

"I would need a situation or context in which the inflation is happening and what exactly is being inflated in order to answer that question. It is basically just like asking me if black cats are bad with the assumed answer that they are by virtue of some superstition or whatever."

"Ok... you clearly don't know the answer and I'm done with this now."

"Ok cya."

I just grabbed my stuff and left the classroom at that point. This same professor was praising Milton fucking Friedman last week.
#659
Post rating: ~

girdles_gone_wild posted:
I just grabbed my stuff and left the classroom at that point.


and everyone stood up and clapped

#660
Post rating: ~
anyone have an e-book or other digital version of Debt? i need to read that freakin book already

n/m looks like it's on google books

Edited by thirdplace ()

#661
Post rating: ~
yeah i got one
#662
Post rating: ~
I don't know if this site works but http://www.filedropper.com/graeber-debt-thefirst5000years
#663
Post rating: ~
just to be clear my catchphrase was in no way meant to disparage girdle's post or experience but rather an ironic comment on the subaltern status of alternative economics in the classroom!

Meursault posted:
I don't know if this site works but http://www.filedropper.com/graeber-debt-thefirst5000years

yeah that works too, thanks

#664
Post rating: ~
that's a funny story. Poor lil economics teacher...
#665
Post rating: ~

girdles_gone_wild posted:
meh... ok...
So... for my Global Economics course, one of our major projects or whatever was to read an economic related book and then give a 30 minutes presentation or so about it. I chose Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber, because that book fucking owns and the topic is really interesting. Well... today I presented the book to the class. Started from the beginning, talked about the various historical events and ideas and worked my way up to the present and related a lot of the stuff to current events in the eurozone (Greeks burning tax records, for example).

It all went well and then it ended, but then the professor just started kind of ranting and claiming the stuff I was presenting was false, wrong, etc. It was really weird, because I was just like, "uhhh so what exactly is wrong about it?"
Like... he went off about the origins of coinage. I talked about how coins were originally to pay soldiers and stuff, but he said this was wrong. Sure enough, he posed the whole econ 101 origins of money, "Imagine you own some horses, but you want cows" type bullshit. I was just thinking to myself... "Did you not listen to what I was saying? That shit is a myth." But then again I know he wasn't paying attention during the presentation because he didn't even pay attention to any of the presentations this week or last week sooooooo.

I kept asking him precisely what his critiques were, but he would only reply with stuff like, "Just think about it logically... it's all ridiculous!" He eventually started asking me question that had nothing to do with my presentation.

He kept pressing and asking me, "Is inflation bad?" I was kind of stunned because I wasn't sure what he was getting at and the question is just so inane to begin with. I said, "Well if you tell me the context in which the inflation occurs, I could tell you if it was bad or not."

"No... in theory, is inflation bad?"

"How can I genuinely answer that if it's not set in a certain context or situation?"

"Just tell me... is inflation bad in theory?"

"I would need a situation or context in which the inflation is happening and what exactly is being inflated in order to answer that question. It is basically just like asking me if black cats are bad with the assumed answer that they are by virtue of some superstition or whatever."

"Ok... you clearly don't know the answer and I'm done with this now."

"Ok cya."

I just grabbed my stuff and left the classroom at that point. This same professor was praising Milton fucking Friedman last week.



thats tough. did he want you to say inflation is always bad? because if so that seems really ridiculous, dont even most neo-classicists accept that inflation is necessary to some degree to keep pace with an expanding pool of goods and services?

#666
Post rating: +
He wanted me to say that inflation was bad.
I even asked answered the question with a question at one point with, "If the economy is in a deflationary death spiral, is inflation bad then?"
He said that economies "naturally experience a brief period of deflation, but that's not the point."

Honestly, the dude was just being a colossal dick and bully. I always carry a book to class to read because he's always late for class. I've been going through "Limits to Capital" again and normally I put the book away whenever he gets into class, but I forgot today and left it out on my desk. He walked by and immediately looked at it and grabbed it and started flipping through it, took it to his seat and looked at it for like 5 minutes and then gave it back. I'm pretty sure that set him off in some ways.
#667
Post rating: +
lmao "economies naturally experience a brief period of deflation, but that's not the point."

the natural state of economies is deflation, that is to say, freedom
#668
Post rating: ~
The next time he lectures you should ask him the same question and watch him squirm
#669
Post rating: +
I already did something like that, though. It was the second or third class and he was going over the history of capitalism, specifically he was at the part about transitioning from a feudalistic type mode of production into capitalism. I wanted to ask him questions about primitive accumulation and was like, "So how did they convince the population to leave the farms and land and go work in incredibly dangerous factories, mines, etc.? Like... why would anyone just spontaneously go work in primitive sweat shop?"

He definitely squirmed and really the only thing he came up with was, "Well... technology advanced too fast."
#670
Post rating: ~
BREAKING NEWS
KINGDOM OF SPAIN CUT TO BBB+ FROM A BY S&P, OUTLOOK NEGATIVE

good work kirchener san!
#671
Post rating: ~
haha that question about inflation being "bad"

i guess it really isn't that weird to see analysis of economics in terms of biblical notions of Good and Evil, when market forces are elevated to the mythos of modern day greek gods.

unto thee, Oh golden bull, i sacrifice my first born. Please, Monsonto, God of Grain Crops, i beg thee for propriety of a bountiful GMO harvest, so that my fellow village will not starve during the harsh summer droughts!
#672
Post rating: ~

girdles_gone_wild posted:
meh... ok...
So... for my Global Economics course, one of our major projects or whatever was to read an economic related book and then give a 30 minutes presentation or so about it. I chose Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber, because that book fucking owns and the topic is really interesting. Well... today I presented the book to the class. Started from the beginning, talked about the various historical events and ideas and worked my way up to the present and related a lot of the stuff to current events in the eurozone (Greeks burning tax records, for example).

It all went well and then it ended, but then the professor just started kind of ranting and claiming the stuff I was presenting was false, wrong, etc. It was really weird, because I was just like, "uhhh so what exactly is wrong about it?"
Like... he went off about the origins of coinage. I talked about how coins were originally to pay soldiers and stuff, but he said this was wrong. Sure enough, he posed the whole econ 101 origins of money, "Imagine you own some horses, but you want cows" type bullshit. I was just thinking to myself... "Did you not listen to what I was saying? That shit is a myth." But then again I know he wasn't paying attention during the presentation because he didn't even pay attention to any of the presentations this week or last week sooooooo.

I kept asking him precisely what his critiques were, but he would only reply with stuff like, "Just think about it logically... it's all ridiculous!" He eventually started asking me question that had nothing to do with my presentation.

He kept pressing and asking me, "Is inflation bad?" I was kind of stunned because I wasn't sure what he was getting at and the question is just so inane to begin with. I said, "Well if you tell me the context in which the inflation occurs, I could tell you if it was bad or not."

"No... in theory, is inflation bad?"

"How can I genuinely answer that if it's not set in a certain context or situation?"

"Just tell me... is inflation bad in theory?"

"I would need a situation or context in which the inflation is happening and what exactly is being inflated in order to answer that question. It is basically just like asking me if black cats are bad with the assumed answer that they are by virtue of some superstition or whatever."

"Ok... you clearly don't know the answer and I'm done with this now."

"Ok cya."

I just grabbed my stuff and left the classroom at that point. This same professor was praising Milton fucking Friedman last week.

im so glad i never got taught economics beyond age 16

#673
Post rating: +
like seriously i'm gonna get a bad grade for this presentation even though there really wasn't anything wrong with it.
I even did a trial run presentation in front of two friends of mine who were genuinely interested in the topic and they thought it was really good, etc.

Also the professor wants a better hand out/outline thing to go along with it. I basically paraphrased Graeber's talk from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs
as best I could in two page format while making it look legit, etc., but the professor wanted "sources."

At this point I just feel like I have nothing to lose and I'm just gonna got on campus, plug my flash drive in, open up Debt, and then click print on it, and hand in the entire book to him. I'm leaving this country in like 4 weeks and I've decided not to go to grad school anymore, so fuck this dude.
#674
Post rating: ~
i'm not sure what kind of reaction you expected though girdles, you can't challenge people's deeply-held beliefs without expecting them to angry

what country you going to?
#675
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

girdles_gone_wild posted:
like seriously i'm gonna get a bad grade for this presentation even though there really wasn't anything wrong with it.
I even did a trial run presentation in front of two friends of mine who were genuinely interested in the topic and they thought it was really good, etc.

Also the professor wants a better hand out/outline thing to go along with it. I basically paraphrased Graeber's talk from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs
as best I could in two page format while making it look legit, etc., but the professor wanted "sources."

At this point I just feel like I have nothing to lose and I'm just gonna got on campus, plug my flash drive in, open up Debt, and then click print on it, and hand in the entire book to him. I'm leaving this country in like 4 weeks and I've decided not to go to grad school anymore, so fuck this dude.

Just go have a meeting with the chair of his department or whoever and complain about how this adult baby is grading you on ideology instead of merit

#676
Post rating: ~

girdles_gone_wild posted:
like seriously i'm gonna get a bad grade for this presentation even though there really wasn't anything wrong with it.
I even did a trial run presentation in front of two friends of mine who were genuinely interested in the topic and they thought it was really good, etc.

Also the professor wants a better hand out/outline thing to go along with it. I basically paraphrased Graeber's talk from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs
as best I could in two page format while making it look legit, etc., but the professor wanted "sources."

At this point I just feel like I have nothing to lose and I'm just gonna got on campus, plug my flash drive in, open up Debt, and then click print on it, and hand in the entire book to him. I'm leaving this country in like 4 weeks and I've decided not to go to grad school anymore, so fuck this dude.



he reaches for his cup of coffee and picks it up, about 80 times in this video but never once drinks out of it. it's driving me insane.

#677
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +
Haha. We used to have a math professor who, during tests, would sit at the front of the room and quietly shit his pants, and just sit there glaring at us, red-faced, as if he was daring someone to point out the umber seep dampening his argyle socks. Quirky folk in academia.
#678
[account deactivated]
#679
Post rating: ~

swampman posted:

girdles_gone_wild posted:
like seriously i'm gonna get a bad grade for this presentation even though there really wasn't anything wrong with it.
I even did a trial run presentation in front of two friends of mine who were genuinely interested in the topic and they thought it was really good, etc.

Also the professor wants a better hand out/outline thing to go along with it. I basically paraphrased Graeber's talk from here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs
as best I could in two page format while making it look legit, etc., but the professor wanted "sources."

At this point I just feel like I have nothing to lose and I'm just gonna got on campus, plug my flash drive in, open up Debt, and then click print on it, and hand in the entire book to him. I'm leaving this country in like 4 weeks and I've decided not to go to grad school anymore, so fuck this dude.

Just go have a meeting with the chair of his department or whoever and complain about how this adult baby is grading you on ideology instead of merit

lmao yeah how dare an econ professor teach ideology, call the education police

#680
[account deactivated]