#41
Hell,
Post rating: ~

Itwasme posted:
Apparently that is wrong? We must always without err without hesitation adorn the road to paradisio and bailando with impaled corpses of the "innocents"



no, silly.

i give you shit for talking about game theory i/r/t social change in a basic prisoners dillemma sense but the really big substantive errors you made imo were, in no particular order of fuck-stupidity;

1. equating solidarity and action with imperialism. imperialism is a very specific subcategory of violence requiring a lot more than two or more people identifying with each other and lashing out at something.

2. an appeal to pacifism which by default concedes territory to the violent hegemon. pacifistic strategies remove all incentive for the hegemon to alter their actions. they may change one day, but it won't be because of sympathy, it'll be because there's no more blood to squeeze out of the victims.

3. beginning your sentence iwth "i dont know much about islam, but" and then saying a lot really fucking stupid ass ignorant shit in the form of sweeping declarative statements. don't do that. ever. i/r/t islam or anything else whether you're on a forum or in a conversation face to face. its dumb as fuck. never ever do that for any reason.

3a. as a corollary to point 3 would not have been made any better if you left your "i don't know much about" preface out. if you don't know anything about a thing stop fucking talking about that thing.

#42
Hell,
Post rating: +
a friendly reminder that pacifists expect this;



to disappear because when it sees the people of the world linking arms and singing hymnals in three billion part harmony they'll stop murdering every single one of them for their resources and markets.

it is a garbage thought from a garbage man who belongs in the garbage stinking and crying while superpowers carve up the world in a surprisingly informal latter day globalized berlin conference
#43
Post rating: ~
it's cool how the middle east is "Cent"
#44
Post rating: ~

blinkandwheeze posted:
hahah all these new posters are great i dont understand anything that theyre saying

im very well spoken Blinkandwheeze.

#45
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +

WillieTomg posted:
a friendly reminder that pacifists expect this;



to disappear because when it sees the people of the world linking arms and singing hymnals in three billion part harmony they'll stop murdering every single one of them for their resources and markets.

it is a garbage thought from a garbage man who belongs in the garbage stinking and crying while superpowers carve up the world in a surprisingly informal latter day globalized berlin conference

i sense a lot of anger. it's time to let go of that anger and give peace a chance. let love be your shield.

#46
Hell,
Post rating: ~

blinkandwheeze posted:
hahah all these new posters are great i dont understand anything that theyre saying



some times you just need to find a hold on the thread of the talk, gathering 'round the Universal Punchbowl and just burning a shit, y'know?


everyone reaches a point whereupon the obscene cell needs a break.

#47
[account deactivated]
#48
Post rating: +
i know a lot about Christianity and *makes sweeping statement about incredibly diverse religion practiced by over a billion people worldwide*
#49
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +

discipline posted:
I don't know much about Islam

#50
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
I don't know much about Islam but



i have been obsessed with Mehanna's statement for a day now and it's only pushing me closer to conversion. dunno if that's bad or good just letting things happen


#51
[account deactivated]
#52
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
I don't know why anyone would convert for political reasons, especially if you were an american. it's a religion, certainly not a monolithic political movement by any means



i didn't say that was the reason is just feels like another sign.

#53
Post rating: ~
http://www.legalblogger.com/tarek-mehanna-a-hero-for-villains/

"Tarek Mehanna: A Hero For Villains

It is strange that Tarek Mehanna connected with Batman, the comic-book superhero, when the role of villain is more befitting. Mehanna, a Bostonian who traveled to Yemen in search of training with a terrorist group in 2004 and later used the Internet to spread al-Qaeda’s message, was sentenced to 17 ½ years in prison on Thursday. Not even J.W. Carney Jr., one of the best defense lawyers in the country (whose other clients include notorious gangster James “Whitey” Bulger), could convince the jury of Mehanna’s innocence. Yet this did not prevent an outpouring of support for Mehanna.

Glenn Greenwald, a blogger for Salon, referred to the case as “one of the most egregious violations of the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech seen in quite some time.” Writing for the Guardian, Ross Caputi offers total support Mehannapo0, even going so far as to admit that he has ”done everything that Mehanna has done” and freely ”advocates” for Mehanna’s “ideas” (actions and ideas that I will describe below in all their repulsive detail).

Those lionizing Mehanna as an exemplar of the First Amendment – an Amendment which Mehanna did not hold dear, to say the least – must either be ignorant of the facts of his case or are motivated by something more sinister (as appears the case with Caputi).

To begin with, Mehanna’s case implicated more than just the First Amendment. He was convicted of conspiracy to provide material support or resources to a foreign terror organization, conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists, providing and attempting to provide material support to terrorists, conspiracy to kill in a foreign country, conspiracy to lie to federal investigators, and two counts of lying to federal investigators.

Next, Greenwald, and others, also highlighted and lauded Mehanna’s sentencing speech (where he proudly admits to supporting the mujahedeen, literally “people doing jihad”, which of course does not faze Mehanna stalwarts) – a speech which, tellingly, does not mention any of the implicating facts of his case.

From the court documents:

In the second half of 2003, Mehanna and an accomplice discussed a plan to obtain automatic weapons, go to a shopping mall, and randomly shoot people, but abandoned the plans when learning that their weapon’s supplier could only provide handguns.
Mehanna translated into English the publication “39 Ways to Serve and Participate in Jihad,” made efforts to have the translation published on the Internet, and requested publication occur without using his own name (all on behalf of al-Qaeda of Iraq).
Mehanna expressed a hatred of living in the United States (“I really hate to live in the country longer … I wish to go back to arabia … or some other place where I don’t see these filthy kuffar ”).
Regarding moderate Muslims leaders, of one he said “he needs to be raped” and of another he said “I wish I could meet … and cut off his testicles.”
In a communication recorded on Mehanna’s computer, he suggested asking for “Allah’s mercy on just the buildings not the sinners that were in it as at least the buildings weren’t sinners”
In May 2006, Mehanna and his accomplice planned a movie night to watch video of Zarqawi beheading the 26-year-old American businessman Nicholas Berg.

To anyone who remains skeptical about the Mehanna case, I suggest reading the court documents because the evidence is both damning and overwhelming (as it needed to be to gain the jury conviction that it did), too much to include in this short post. And to those supporting Mehanna, let it be said: If Mehanna is a hero (or, as his lawyer declared, a modern day Martin Luther King Jr.), so is al-Qaeda."
#54
Post rating: ~

blinkandwheeze posted:
hahah all these new posters are great i dont understand anything that theyre saying

#55
Post rating: +

i have been obsessed with Mehanna's statement for a day now and it's only pushing me closer to conversion. dunno if that's bad or good just letting things happen



imo this tarek guy's story is illustrative of what happens when you allow yourself to get swept up in an emotional torrent and do something stupid like supporting the modernist western innovators known as al-qaida and ignoring the 99.9% of sunni scholars who will tell you as much

he forgot that only Allah has true agency in this universe and got wrapped up with a bunch of superficially islamic thugs who kill kids. keep this in mind if you do convert. islam is about submission to god and involves a lot of learning and mundane spiritual work. all of this other stuff is fantasy.

#56
Post rating: +
i dont know a lot about aesthetic fascism but *makes a sweeping statement about thing that is practiced by like 6 people worldwide*

Adolf Hitler European Tour 1939-1945
#57
Post rating: ~

noavbazzer posted:
he forgot that only Allah has true agency in this universe and got wrapped up with a bunch of superficially islamic thugs who kill kids. keep this in mind if you do convert. islam is about submission to god and involves a lot of learning and mundane spiritual work. all of this other stuff is fantasy.



yeah i've already had to submit and do that kind of work in another area of life but 1.5 years of arabic class later and the fact that i already don't drink and don't eat pork for similar reasons, i dunno, it has been coming up stronger. been vacillating on Islam since i was 14. mostly just identified with his theme of "my own country radicalized me and made me search for something meaningful" we are close in age too. i see that he wrote a lot of stupid hypocritical shit in 2006. a solid sentencing statement nonetheless.

#58
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
you should worship joe pesci.

because joe pesci gets things done.
#59
Post rating: ~
IMO I commend the guys dedication, but there's more to it than that. As a muslim I think it's pretty easy to realize that it is right to and you should support jihad. The real question is whether the jihad is legitimate. In cases like Somalia a few years ago it obviously was, but I don't see how supporting Saudi fifth column-infiltrated militant groups trying to take power to maintain the power system in the region has anything to do with helping muslim people defend themselves from Bad Stuff.

edit: And I agree with T Money that I don't see how this should really influence your decision. A guy doing something cool who is coincidently related to the religion you're considering is not really A Sign that should influence your decisions, it's just a coincidence.
#60
Post rating: +
i feel like to even have an opinion on the (lesser) jihad you need to be a scholar with ijazah because it involves way more than geopolitical realities. ignorant people having opinions is how this dumb shit started.

An ancient building, for instance the Blue Mosque in Istanbul, might seem imperfect to some who worship in it. Young enthusiasts, burning with a desire to make the building still more exquisite and well-made (and no doubt more in conformity with their own time-bound preferences), might gain access to the crypts and basements which lie under the structure, and, on the basis of their own understanding of the principles of architecture, try to adjust the foundations and pillars which support the great edifice above them. They will not, of course, bother to consult professional architects, except perhaps one or two whose rhetoric pleases them nor will they be guided by the books and memoirs of those who have maintained the structure over the centuries. Their zeal and pride leaves them with no time for that. Groping through the basements, they bring out their picks and drills, and set to work with their usual enthusiasm.

There is a real danger that Sunni Islam is being treated in a similar fashion. The edifice has stood for centuries, withstanding the most bitter blows of its enemies. Only from within can it be weakened.



Islamism, that soi-disant hammer of the Franks, is ironically modern in very many ways. It is modern in its eagerness for science and its hatred of ‘superstition.’ It is modern in its rejection of all higher spirituality (Qutb recommends, instead, ‘al-fana’ fi’l-‘aqida’). It is modern in its rejection of the principle of tradition, and, despite itself, cannot but impose the insecurities of Western-trained minds (and are they not all engineers and doctors?) on scripture. Intertextuality and the community of sages are barred. The theopolitics of classical Islam, where both scholarship and the state are invigorated by mutual tension (the Men of the Pen and the Men of the Sword), is replaced by the finally Western model of the ideological totalitarian state, with a self-appointed clerisy (albeit composed of technocrats) requiring absolute control over policy and the Shari‘a. The modular diversities of pre-modern Muslim societies, where villages, tribes, and millat minorities regulated themselves, give way to the Islamist appropriation of the machinery of centralised post-colonial etatism. Social subsets which flourished for centuries under, say, Ottomanism, already eroded by centralising colonial regimes, are finally liquidated by a vision that is purely Western, albeit camouflaged by loud religious language.

#61
Post rating: ~

Traditional Sunnis intuit that al-Qaida is a Western invention, but one which cannot be defeated in a battleground where the logic is Western. This was one of the messages that emerged from the 2003 summit meeting of eight hundred Muslim scholars at Putrajaya. Al-Qaida is inauthentic: it rejects the classical canons of Islamic law and theology, and issues fatwas that are neither formally nor in their habit of mind deducible from medieval exegesis. But it is not enough for the entire leadership of the religion to denounce al-Qaida, as it did at Putrajaya, and then to hope and pray that the same strange logic of modernity that bred this insurgency can spirit it away again. The West inseminates, but does not so easily abort. Faced with this, the Sunni leadership needs to be more alert to its responsibilities. Even the radical Westernisation of Islamic piety remains the responsibility of Muslim ulema, not, ultimately, of the Western matrix that inspired it. And it has to be said that the Sunni leadership has not done enough. Denunciations alone will not dent the puritan’s armour, and may strengthen it; this the Counter-Reformation learned by experience.



http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/moonlight.htm

#62
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
also another factor is that islam is a completely made up dungeons and dragons-like fantasy novel delusion and that questing on its behalf is probably almost as dumb as thinking world of warcraft is real.
#63
Poronto
Post rating: ~
al-qaida's NOT MODERNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIST
#64
Kurdt
Post rating: +

discipline posted:
I don't know why anyone would convert for political reasons, especially if you were an american. it's a religion, certainly not a monolithic political movement by any means


#65
Post rating: +
how much exp did 9/11 give
#66
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:
how much exp did 9/11 give



ahahahah

#67
[account deactivated]
#68
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
#69
Post rating: ~
when you convert how do you decide whether to be sunni or shia
#70
meet me in st louis
Post rating: ~
its not really sunni or shia so much as which ever scholar you follow and their school of jurisprudence.

i mean the tenants of faith are different (mainly on the holiness of the imamate) but the practice of faith is almost identical and the jurisprudence is similar just with different primary sources.

it's p much up to you like anything else, but you just need to inform yourself on islamic history and understand how/why the schism happened and see where your heart lies.
#71
meet me in st louis
Post rating: ~
...but really all revolutionary peoples are shia deep down.