#1
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People on the progressive left like to throw around the label “denier” and accuse sceptics of denying reality and such, but it comes down to a fundamental issue: Why should I believe the scientists models? Why should I really believe that they can predict the future when future determinism is the kind of thing that “rational” people laugh off in nearly every case.

Why is there so much faith in these techno-soothsayers? Why is everyone drowning themselves in the hubris of believing we are smart enough to understand and predict changes to something as incredibly complicated as the earth’s entire biosphere?

It’s been glibly dismissed before but there’s definitely some truth to the idea that if scientists can’t tell me what the weather is going to be tomorrow, how can they predict it 30 years from now.

Anyway, I want you to tell me why you’ve hitched your wagon to the freight train of runaway climate change and why I should to, because at the moment it looks like a goose chase by charlatans chasing research grants and junkets or investment bankers chasing new ways to extract money from the public purse.

I simply don't know why we should put so much stock in what is, after all, the age old practice of soothsaying.
#2
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i haven't hitched my wagon to it. i don't give a flying fuck about it and fully acknowledge that individual consumer choices will not change a thing, though i suppose that the scientists are observing some patterns of changes that might or might not mean something big that ultimately will not matter one bit in my life even if it destroys me or helps me somehow
#3
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you shouldn't believe western scientists, iwc; as our british whipping boy is fond of saying, science is merely a degenerate form of marxism
#4
Nippon
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because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it
#5
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Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it



try reading a lil' hegel u fucking scrub then get back at the big boys in this thread, okay fuckboy?

#6
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i didnt believe in global warming until i went to ski in aspen this winter and there was nothing but slush
#7
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Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it



not really. I don’t see any real sea level rises, I don’t see any climate refugees, I don’t see declining polar bear populations or worse hurricans.

Sometimes we just have to acknowledge man’s insignificance in the face of creation, but that’s too troubling a thought for those who want to play God.

#8
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TG posted:
i didnt believe in global warming until i went to ski in aspen this winter and there was nothing but slush

good?

#9
Nippon
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aerdil posted:

Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it

try reading a lil' hegel u fucking scrub then get back at the big boys in this thread, okay fuckboy?



hegel is pure gibberish. the cruel directness of a schopenhauer is the true philosophy

#10
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Impper posted:

TG posted:
i didnt believe in global warming until i went to ski in aspen this winter and there was nothing but slush

good?



no youre thinking of powder

#11
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TG posted:
i didnt believe in global warming until i went to ski in aspen this winter and there was nothing but slush



yeah but just two years ago russia had one of it's coldest winters on record and the past few years in the UK have got record snowfall

#12
Nippon
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it

not really. I don’t see any real sea level rises



fortunately we actually have hundreds of satellites which can measure these things to tolerances millions times greater than the human eye

#13
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Goethestein posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it

not really. I don’t see any real sea level rises

fortunately we actually have hundreds of satellites which can measure these things to tolerances millions times greater than the human eye



yeah but places like the Maldives which we keep hearing about as being "the first victims of climate change" haven't actually had any sea level rises.

#14
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Goethestein posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it

not really. I don’t see any real sea level rises

fortunately we actually have hundreds of satellites which can measure these things to tolerances millions times greater than the human eye



if there are so many satellites why cant I see 'em. really you're just taking it on faith that scientists even bother to launch them into the sky, instead of launching that money up their nose

#15
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
politics tends to have people's positions clump around obvious and simple solutions to large numbers of different problems and it is really obvious with climate change. like 90% of leftists hear that ecological issues will mean we need to have better regulation of the economy and then jump on board immediately. it also means they can sweep concerns of socialism being bad for growth under the carpet by saying that unlimited growth is the logic of the cancer cell or whatever. and a lot of them already hate that americans consume a lot and decide to add some puritan fears that it is somehow bad for more than just that person.

ronald reagan had a quote that it's gotten to the point where some people can't see a fat person standing beside a slim one without thinking that the fat person made the slim one that way. the love for ecosocialism comes from basically believing that's true.
#16
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getfiscal posted:
politics tends to have people's positions clump around obvious and simple solutions to large numbers of different problems and it is really obvious with climate change. like 90% of leftists hear that ecological issues will mean we need to have better regulation of the economy and then jump on board immediately. it also means they can sweep concerns of socialism being bad for growth under the carpet by saying that unlimited growth is the logic of the cancer cell or whatever. and a lot of them already hate that americans consume a lot and decide to add some puritan fears that it is somehow bad for more than just that person.

ronald reagan had a quote that it's gotten to the point where some people can't see a fat person standing beside a slim one without thinking that the fat person made the slim one that way. the love for ecosocialism comes from basically believing that's true.



Yeah that’s basically what I’ve been playing with. That since the collapse of communism, climate change has essentially become the main front of anti-capitalism.

Which might be justified but by jove it gets annoying listening to clueless hippies shout offensive epithets like “Denier” at people who don’t place as much stock in groupthink.

#17
Mike Nelson here.
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the green party leader in canada is leading a campaign against smart meters because they have wireless components and she's implying that this is a dangerous health risk. so basically she's taking a position against electrical load-balancing, which is the most obvious first step of conservation, because she has largely baseless fears against a universally used technology. so like why should i trust that this person knows everything about climate science.
#18
desire be, desire go
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

getfiscal posted:
politics tends to have people's positions clump around obvious and simple solutions to large numbers of different problems and it is really obvious with climate change. like 90% of leftists hear that ecological issues will mean we need to have better regulation of the economy and then jump on board immediately. it also means they can sweep concerns of socialism being bad for growth under the carpet by saying that unlimited growth is the logic of the cancer cell or whatever. and a lot of them already hate that americans consume a lot and decide to add some puritan fears that it is somehow bad for more than just that person.

ronald reagan had a quote that it's gotten to the point where some people can't see a fat person standing beside a slim one without thinking that the fat person made the slim one that way. the love for ecosocialism comes from basically believing that's true.

Yeah that’s basically what I’ve been playing with. That since the collapse of communism, climate change has essentially become the main front of anti-capitalism.

Which might be justified but by jove it gets annoying listening to clueless hippies shout offensive epithets like “Denier” at people who don’t place as much stock in groupthink.



unfortuantely groupthink has colonized both poles. obviously. how could it not? i'm telling you iwc you need to read some heidegger... itd do wonders for all your angles, from technology to people losing themselves in the they

#19
Nippon
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:
because there is a huge amount of objective evidence in support of it

not really. I don’t see any real sea level rises

fortunately we actually have hundreds of satellites which can measure these things to tolerances millions times greater than the human eye

yeah but places like the Maldives which we keep hearing about as being "the first victims of climate change" haven't actually had any sea level rises.



sounds like u have a problem w/the liberal media

#20
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getfiscal posted:
the green party leader in canada is leading a campaign against smart meters because they have wireless components and she's implying that this is a dangerous health risk. so basically she's taking a position against electrical load-balancing, which is the most obvious first step of conservation, because she has largely baseless fears against a universally used technology. so like why should i trust that this person knows everything about climate science.



Yeah it’s sad. Also like the looting of the treasury under the guise of “green” or “renewable” energy.

We’re spending hundreds of millions on dumbass ugly inefficient windmills when we have all the coal in the world. Cheap energy is one of the fundamental building blocks for an egalitarian society and it scares me that we’re going backwards thanks to the self-flagellation of overeducated green bourgeois who need something to feel guilty about and jack up the power prices for all the proles to make them feel better.

#21
Nippon
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the real problem with environmentalism is how it is not calling for and acting toward the mass extinction of the human race
#22
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i don't have the technical expertise to judge the evidence for myself, and probably no one here does unless we have any climatologists i'm unaware of, but it seems credible enough. why not believe it, let alone go so far as to deny it?
#23
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
i've talked to some professional economists working for "green" think tanks and sometimes they honestly just straight up don't understand basic economics. like one guy told me that he thought we shouldn't discount bad things happening in the future because of climate change, as in we should value it as if it were happening today, so that almost anything we do to stop it is efficient. and the logic was that there was no reason to treat the earth of the future as less valuable than the earth of today.

but like no economist would treat it like there were no discount rate at all for all things, that wouldn't make sense. like there is a normal and fairly large discount rate for worrying about cancers that might afflict people ten years from now, because we are more worried about stuff happening today, and there are a lot of expectations built into the costs as well (we might cure that cancer or whatever, making the cost much lower). but when we worry about climate change, that's most of the cost, too, we are worried about new malarial deaths caused by hotter parts of africa and such. but why would we heavily discount current malarial deaths and then not discount at all additional climate change caused malarial deaths?

and he was like oh well maybe we shouldn't discount for bad things in general and i was like that's impossible. like if we treated our great-great-grandkids deaths from cancer as as worthwhile as our own possible impending deaths from cancer or something then we'd basically have to reorient our entire society around preventing our distant future relatives from dying from disease. but we have other priorities.

anyway this is all very obvious and straightforward and we discussed it and the guy then went on telling the same story over and over without even hinting that it was controversial. i hate policy hacks.
#24
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TG posted:
i didnt believe in global warming until i went to ski in aspen this winter and there was nothing but slush


yeah inside your skull you bourgeous skier fucklord

#25
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i like the term denier because if it's real it'll be essentially mike davis' victorian holocausts and we should leech off from the minimal 'sympathy for honorary-whites' jews have going
#26
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#27
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dunno what it was like in y'all's hemispheres but there basically wasn't a winter this year in these united states so i'm gonna go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to the scientists
#28
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Also, bush knocked down the towers
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#31
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tpaine posted:
haha yeah here in sunny fl it was often hot in during the winter which is weird even here. and i live in basically the tepid disease stew milieu

before this year i'd seen two, maybe three brown christmases here in mn in my whole dang life; this year there was a brown feburary. dry as fuck now. nobody is ready to admit it but it's pretty weird and right on schedule

#32
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thirdplace posted:
dunno what it was like in y'all's hemispheres but there basically wasn't a winter this year in these united states so i'm gonna go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to the scientists


no shit but around 2002 i was already feeling unprecedented cold in my morning walks to school and cursing americans for chaotic unpredictable 3rd world climate. like, superfucking cold (colder than winter days) in between summer and fall

fuck yall americans you knocked down the dowers

#33
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#34
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iwc you've spent possibly a thousand dollars on accounts on SA which get immediately banned and have become too pathetic even for a regional thread in a subforum of a nerd website. go get help seriously and stop posting trolls on the internet.
#35
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if i wanted to post in threads started by mentally ill people i would post in the other half of lf forum
#36
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#37
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lets have weather chat

florida is gonna be fucking ravaged by mosquitoes this year thanks to the hotter than usual weather, time to cancel all my outside business for the year
#38
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#40
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