#41
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

noavbazzer posted:

babyfinland posted:
lol have you resigned yourself to being a goon forever or something

sometimes i think people hate normal life so much they jsut pretend its not an option

normal life for me is living everyday being fundamentally unsatisfied and totally aware of it and trying to have sex/date with women for the temporary boost to my self-esteem so i can blot out how pointless my future looks



i meant more like middle class america-normal, not sad single goon-normal

sorry about your empty life. i remember what that was like and i dont really know what exaclty it was that removed me from that. it just sort of happens by the grace of God

#42
mt.real
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you're never going to find "something Real" if you worry about if it's Real or not. it's a totally useless distinction. there is a viewpoint from which any given thing is not truly Real. so it's like worrying about if 1 was actually 0, like, whoa.

just cultivate a comfort with the absurdity of actually choosing to do anything. "how do I live?!?" well you're doing it already so w/e

not to pretend to be some kind of mentally well adjusted cool guy, i just am getting more and more okay with the fact that there are no answers. meditate or something. hang out with people who are content in their lives. get a massage from a girl who thinks we all have special spirit energy. there are a lot of totally valid ways to live & all of them are equally bullshit & it's ok
#43
tardy on these heaters
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getfiscal posted:
i think that living a "normal life" is entirely creditable and i respect people who do it. i find new age sorts of beliefs repulsive, though. not when someone believes something different in itself. like if a person says "i take healing crystals" or "i read the quran to myself" or whatever then i'm like okay glad that works for you i guess. but when they act like they have a fix for me then it creeps me out big time.



Religion Works but yeah new age beliefs are terrible. theyre so lazy and self indulgent and just try to band aid over these existential problems without actually addressing the fundamental issue (which imho is the rejection of the absolute and elevation of the subjective)

#44
Mike Nelson here.
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i think i get enough lacan to understand that there isn't even something that can sustain the visceral half-truths that appear to be "real." like buddhism sort of says we can whittle away our attachment to the world by recognizing that our desires are baseless. well lacan's rebuttal is that no, it is precisely because they are baseless that there's no there there. it's like an onion: if you get rid of the desires, there's nothing left, so you might as well just commit suicide if you believe that you want to get rid of desire (the kamikaze is no accident). and the entire deadlock is that there is no way to "properly" relate to desire. it isn't even really that you "ought" to choose to live, knowing that you are basically a bundle of largely irrational forces is just sorta what you gotta deal with. like there is an ethic that you should sort of accept all this, but not in any firm way. you gotta roll with it. or not. chaos reigns.

it's not precisely an existentialism because it has entirely different views of the self. like in lacan you are sort of produced by society, there is no core self that reflects your awesome creative spirit or whatever that is just waiting to be released into a french novel. your just an interplay of forces that are bewildering the more you think about them. you have a lot less room to maneuver than an existentialist would say, and there's something pretty horrifying about someone like camus saying "hahaha just smile and do something crazy!" but at the end of the day lacan is like welp all we can do is figure out what we really like and go for it, i guess.
#45
mt.real
Post rating: ~
rank + lacan = having the audacity to choose whatever dumb made up shit you want to do and be totally cool with it, in the face of the unspeakable horror of mortality, forever dancing on the line between schizophrenia and catatonia

i dig those guys
#46
Post rating: ~
ive basically disagreed with literally everything getfiscal has posted the past month but i'm way too busy with schoolwork to make Argue words which is too bad because its only worth while doing so when the other person is probably mentally ill
#47
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getfiscal posted:
but at the end of the day lacan is like welp all we can do is figure out what we really like and go for it, i guess.



in that case put on a dress and tell me where you live

#48
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noavbazzer posted:
When I saw getfiscal start posting a bunch of centrist liberal shit I figured he must be really drunk and fakeposting. I lurked OG LF for a long time where I was radicalized along with all the others of my ilk and I was there long enough to recognize most of the posters here today. A lot of y'all were Marxists if memory serves. I myself went fairly quickly from a reluctant belief in the Democrats and liberalism to defending state socialism as the only option. I thought that it would last forever... those were the best days of my life.

Here we are though, and I've noticed a general disillusionment with the ideologies of yesterday. I myself spent a lot of time trying to figure out a good reason to hold hope that any day now material conditions would shift such that proletarian revolution would soon be sweeping the world. The more I read books that aren't authored by Chairman Mao though, the more I lost any real faith in The Coming Storm. I see the merit in getfiscal's criticisms of Zizek and Badiou's attempts to keep Marxist class structure relevant and his subsequent flight to centrism. I understand Tsargon's attraction conservative revolution and the idea that first world citizens could work towards seeing conditions improve in their countries today. I fully identify with everything impper wrote about being a hipster pipsqueak. I feel sort of like a red guard after the victory of the capitalist roaders. What is to be done or worked towards? Various large projects or philosophies and programs of personal action seem appealing for awhile before I completely lose interest and see them as futile and far-flung. In the end I return to a general state of being without any direction.

So basically everything getfiscal said above except I'm not nearly well-read or smart enough to articulate it like that.



Well I still consider myself a Marxist and I usually seem pretty on the ball...

I dunno, I don't think your problems really have anything to do with ideology. What does ideology really mean if your only modes of being are of reaction and consumption? Does a baby have an ideology? No? Then what of a spoiled hipster recluse? If that isnt working to you, why not mix it up a bit. Create something that you like, e.g. a post, website, game, song, whatever, you don't even have have to leave your computer. You might find this satisfying.

#49
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

aerdil posted:
ive basically disagreed with literally everything getfiscal has posted the past month but i'm way too busy with schoolwork to make Argue words which is too bad because its only worth while doing so when the other person is probably mentally ill

some day, battle. tonight, sake!

#50
Post rating: ~

aerdil posted:
ive basically disagreed with literally everything getfiscal has posted the past month but i'm way too busy with schoolwork to make Argue words which is too bad because its only worth while doing so when the other person is probably mentally ill



Take the time to post... posting makes the spirit strong and the mind virile...

#51
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

aerdil posted:
ive basically disagreed with literally everything getfiscal has posted the past month but i'm way too busy with schoolwork to make Argue words which is too bad because its only worth while doing so when the other person is probably mentally ill

some day, battle. tonight, sake!

#52
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~

noavbazzer posted:
in that case put on a dress and tell me where you live

#53
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your avatar and that time you said you resemble her whilst crossdressing are really fuckin with me here bro
#54
Mike Nelson here.
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i don't know whether to correct the errors in your fantasy or to exaggerate them for your benefit
#55
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what would a lacanian psychoanalyst choose
#56
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what are you, stuck in the mirror stage?
#57
Mike Nelson here.
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you've got a little schmutz on your lip. you're stuck in the schmear stage!
#58
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#59
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Where's my Hoxha smilie?
#60
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every moment is authentic

your hipsters were not looking for an authentic moment of realness, they were looking for acceptance

so were you
#61
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

SomeIsraeliFuck posted:
every moment is authentic

your hipsters were not looking for an authentic moment of realness, they were looking for acceptance

so were you



validation is probably the more precise word, but yeah

#62
Post rating: ~
they were offered acceptance and readily turned it down; in fact the acceptance they received seemed to horrify them, and i know to an extent it alienated me. i'll reply to other things tomorrow
#63
Post rating: ~
The easy solution which is what all proper marxists should be doing is advocating for a revolution. The real is born through violence, even the most scientificaly correct marxism seems absurd during a period of democratic liberal peace. Any revolution will do, as long as it's a genuine revolution that destroys everything (which is why I discount fascism). It can be made by the proletariat, the students, the lumpenproletariat, the peasants, the third world, the anarchists, the communists, the mindless rioters who want ipods, as long as it creates an event worth living in.

Trots are dumb because they wait for the perfect revolution while studying economics and theory. This is just a religion of people who don't fit in desperately hoping for a community and a purpose. Anyone with a hope of making a revolution should devote themselves fully to it, and not ask the question of who will make it and what will come of it. Ideally nothing will come of it because it never ends, and everyone will make it or be killed. Live revolutionary practice, and learn revolutionary theory only to better succeed at destruction. Schopenhauer was right when he said this is the worst of all possible worlds, because as any proper Marxist should say, it must be destroyed at all costs.
#64
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:
The easy solution which is what all proper marxists should be doing is advocating for a revolution. The real is born through violence, even the most scientificaly correct marxism seems absurd during a period of democratic liberal peace. Any revolution will do, as long as it's a genuine revolution that destroys everything (which is why I discount fascism). It can be made by the proletariat, the students, the lumpenproletariat, the peasants, the third world, the anarchists, the communists, the mindless rioters who want ipods, as long as it creates an event worth living in.

Trots are dumb because they wait for the perfect revolution while studying economics and theory. This is just a religion of people who don't fit in desperately hoping for a community and a purpose. Anyone with a hope of making a revolution should devote themselves fully to it, and not ask the question of who will make it and what will come of it. Ideally nothing will come of it because it never ends, and everyone will make it or be killed. Live revolutionary practice, and learn revolutionary theory only to better succeed at destruction. Schopenhauer was right when he said this is the worst of all possible worlds, because as any proper Marxist should say, it must be destroyed at all costs.



i like the cut of your jib, sailor

#65
Post rating: ~
pitch tent

protest cheese prices

revolution installed
#66
[account deactivated]
#67
The Future is Here
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I don't see the point of never fully engaging in anything. Why not just do something with the full weight of your being? Does watching Daria as a child make that impossible?

If you're a smarter who's read many books and gone to many classes then you should have the faculties to see that the way to have a good life is to find good people and do things with them, help people who you can help, objectively make or fix things that you can f ix, what's the problem with that? Why would you leave any space for yourself to ask questions whose answers won't help you? Just do it, keep doing it. Thought is mostly your enemy
#68
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you have to learn to be like michel or even tisserand in Whatever. participate, participate in the struggle friend, it doesnt matter what it is
#69
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i am basically totally open, honest & authentic, don't pretend to enjoy things ironically, etc. obviously i use sarcasm and hyperbole sometimes but i am not just serially facetious. i tell people what i think, and i don't act in contradiction to it, i think before i speak (which some days means a few second delay before i respond if you're asking me about things i am conflicted on)


take it from your buddy tape speed, being 'real' and true to yourself isn't some balm in gilead. emptiness & emotional pain persist, and a lot more people say they want honesty + authenticity than actually would be comfortable w/ it

Edited by tapespeed ()

#70
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:
they were offered acceptance and readily turned it down; in fact the acceptance they received seemed to horrify them, and i know to an extent it alienated me. i'll reply to other things tomorrow



validation is a better word, as BF kindly pointed out.

they were not offered straight validation, they were required to reneg momentarily on their pose and risk being perceived as try-hards,

the nature of the celebration has more to do with the social scene than with some philosophical quest. you said it yourself, they want to be seen, the rest are your projections.

i still enjoyed reading it imp.

#71
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cool thanks, only when i hear try-hard i think of puas, who own btw
#72
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my opinion is that we'd all like there to be "hipsters" out there, these weirdos living an excessive, inauthentic life, basking in meaninglessness, so that we dont have to. but it's a fantasy, really. they exist ("exist") so that we can all get on with real life (as we're all talking about here), so that we can carve out the revolution or w/e and dont have to operate under the trauma that everything we do is actually fucking stupid, even though most of us would also be called hipsters.

shrug, maybe im completely off base here
#73
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:
The easy solution which is what all proper marxists should be doing is advocating for a revolution. The real is born through violence, even the most scientificaly correct marxism seems absurd during a period of democratic liberal peace. Any revolution will do, as long as it's a genuine revolution that destroys everything (which is why I discount fascism). It can be made by the proletariat, the students, the lumpenproletariat, the peasants, the third world, the anarchists, the communists, the mindless rioters who want ipods, as long as it creates an event worth living in.

Trots are dumb because they wait for the perfect revolution while studying economics and theory. This is just a religion of people who don't fit in desperately hoping for a community and a purpose. Anyone with a hope of making a revolution should devote themselves fully to it, and not ask the question of who will make it and what will come of it. Ideally nothing will come of it because it never ends, and everyone will make it or be killed. Live revolutionary practice, and learn revolutionary theory only to better succeed at destruction. Schopenhauer was right when he said this is the worst of all possible worlds, because as any proper Marxist should say, it must be destroyed at all costs.



revolutions are terrible

#74
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
i was sort of joking. i don't know what to do, really. i wrote a thread on this topic as it relates to politics before here, about passion-for-the-real, or a sort of viscerality. which is similar to authenticity, of seeking out some kernel of truth to our order. obviously the new age version of this is repulsive, it tries to imply a deepness to ourselves which doesn't really exist. even living for subtleties seems like an odd project, the subtleties don't really refer to anything profound. grand projects have a ring of "white god syndrome" to them, delusions of grandeur, which are romantic but somewhat pointless, i'm not sure i can get excited about them in a pointless-but-beautiful way. i whip myself into thinking that maybe i'll get a normal job and bank money and then travel around and enjoy seeing the world. but the aphorism is true, in the sense of a curse: wherever you go, there you are. i could write a book about my nonsense but i probably wouldn't care if anyone really read it. i have no deep interest in most women and can't get excited enough to be presentable to anyone. i think a sort of socialism is feasible over time but i have no interest in arguing against leftist losers and ignorant liberals. the other day i sort of felt fine with the idea that i could disappear at any moment and that even the appearance of a unitary self was an illusion.

i feel very much like i'm a little gear that got popped out of the machine and now can choose what to do with myself. and i've spent a lot of time wondering where i could pop back into the machine to help it run smoothly. and then i think about ways i could pop myself in and cause it to blow apart. now i've been out of it so long i wonder if i should just keep in place, following a new path, but what could that possibly mean.



agreed with this. i'm not sure whats possible, everything's ridiculous

#75
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:
i'm not sure whats possible, everything's ridiculous



mayhaps now is teh time in ur life to read a little gentleman named camoo?

#76
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
noavbazzer posted:
ive always had the idea in my head that i'd eventually find something Real and that would give me the sense of purpose and comfort i needed to finally settle and begin to actually live life but i guess that will never happen and ive got a one way ticket to severe mental health issues and suicide


lol have you resigned yourself to being a goon forever or something

sometimes i think people hate normal life so much they jsut pretend its not an option


uhh newsflash buddy, nnormal life sucks

#77
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:

babyfinland posted:
noavbazzer posted:
ive always had the idea in my head that i'd eventually find something Real and that would give me the sense of purpose and comfort i needed to finally settle and begin to actually live life but i guess that will never happen and ive got a one way ticket to severe mental health issues and suicide


lol have you resigned yourself to being a goon forever or something

sometimes i think people hate normal life so much they jsut pretend its not an option

uhh newsflash buddy, nnormal life sucks



not really. Get a cool wife

#78
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
noavbazzer posted:
i meant more like middle class america-normal, not sad single goon-normal

sorry about your empty life. i remember what that was like and i dont really know what exaclty it was that removed me from that. it just sort of happens by the grace of God


i was actually totally happy before starting work and a semblance of middle class life

#79
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:

babyfinland posted:
noavbazzer posted:
i meant more like middle class america-normal, not sad single goon-normal

sorry about your empty life. i remember what that was like and i dont really know what exaclty it was that removed me from that. it just sort of happens by the grace of God

i was actually totally happy before starting work and a semblance of middle class life



youre an egomaniacal, dysfunctional manchild with no self esteem, why would life be good for you under any circumstances

#80
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
youre an egomaniacal, dysfunctional manchild with no self esteem, why would life be good for you under any circumstances



my life was good when i was in school and, alternatively, bumming around. the only thing that's meaningfully changed has been work. i'm allergic to it, and i'm pretty sure its what drives 90% of my current pathos, i hate waking up every morning, not because i have any problem with the world, however i do have a problem coming in to an office. of course, people will say "change it you doofus" but there is no possibility living in my heart that i can access right now