lo posted:the percentage of state ownership by itself isn't a good indication of whether a state is socialist because it tells us nothing about the relations of production or which class is in power on its own.
ok so what are some good indications?
chickeon posted:the state was formally turned into a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie in tthe same process that banned the CPSU and killed millions of people in the country, i.e. the formal abolition of the dictatorship of the proletariat in favour of a purposely empowered capitalist class.
In some ways yes but It seems to me like everything that Russia has done in the last 20 years is a reversal of this process.
cars posted:when the Federal Reserve is socialism :frogsiren: :allears:
this is a non-sequitur. The USA is controlled by racists and billionaires. This is the same list from the US:
It is obvious from this alone that individualism and hate are the dominating features of USA society.
Plants posted:state capitalism in the ussr was an example of socialism
lo posted:i dont think that is mustang i think it is the guy who recently asked for his old posts to be deleted(not sure why he did that and then started posting under a different name), because they type in the exact same style.
yes I thought that was clear when I said "thank you" in that thread
lo posted:i dont think that is mustang i think it is the guy who recently asked for his old posts to be deleted(not sure why he did that and then started posting under a different name), because they type in the exact same style.
Yes i also think mustang types suspiciously like the guy who just logged into someone's account and asked for all the account's posts to be deleted. also could be some connection to the mustang character who's done that like 2 or 3 times before. Looking into this.
Plants posted:yes I thought that was clear when I said "thank you" in that thread
cars posted:lo posted:i dont think that is mustang i think it is the guy who recently asked for his old posts to be deleted(not sure why he did that and then started posting under a different name), because they type in the exact same style.
Yes i also think mustang types suspiciously like the guy who just logged into someone's account and asked for all the account's posts to be deleted. also could be some connection to the mustang character who's done that like 2 or 3 times before. Looking into this.
can you explain in your own words how any of this would be significant were it true
cars posted:lo posted:
i dont think that is mustang i think it is the guy who recently asked for his old posts to be deleted(not sure why he did that and then started posting under a different name), because they type in the exact same style.
Yes i also think mustang types suspiciously like the guy who just logged into someone's account and asked for all the account's posts to be deleted. also could be some connection to the mustang character who's done that like 2 or 3 times before. Looking into this.
he was typing in the exact same style ages ago, before he asked for the posts to be deleted, and asking similarly non sequitur like questions. mustang usually immediately starts praising hitler and talking about stalin genociding nonwhites whenever he makes a new account.
anyway most of these questions are so simplified and distant from reality that it's hard to know where to begin. obviously killing some fascists doesn't make your state socialist or the usa and canada were socialist during ww2. lenin's notion of state capitalism in the ussr is specifically about the early years where there was coexistence between capitalist relations of production and control by the dictatorship of the proletariat, and the whole point is that it's not straightforwardly socialist or capitalist, it has a dual nature with elements of both. a good place to begin when trying to work out if a state is socialist would be to investigate the relations of production and try and find out which class is in power and which one is not.
ok yes I am the one who asked the question? So what are your thoughts on this?
lo posted:cars posted:lo posted:
i dont think that is mustang i think it is the guy who recently asked for his old posts to be deleted(not sure why he did that and then started posting under a different name), because they type in the exact same style.
Yes i also think mustang types suspiciously like the guy who just logged into someone's account and asked for all the account's posts to be deleted. also could be some connection to the mustang character who's done that like 2 or 3 times before. Looking into this.he was typing in the exact same style ages ago, before he asked for the posts to be deleted, and asking similarly non sequitur like questions. mustang usually immediately starts praising hitler and talking about stalin genociding nonwhites whenever he makes a new account.
anyway most of these questions are so simplified and distant from reality that it's hard to know where to begin. obviously killing some fascists doesn't make your state socialist or the usa and canada were socialist during ww2. lenin's notion of state capitalism in the ussr is specifically about the early years where there was coexistence between capitalist relations of production and control by the dictatorship of the proletariat, and the whole point is that it's not straightforwardly socialist or capitalist, it has a dual nature with elements of both. " would be to investigate the relations of production and try and find out which class is in power and which one is not.
1. "simplified and distant from reality" sorry But I don't understand why that's the case here. I believe this is a basic question of concern to all socialists.
2. "whole point is that it's not straightforwardly socialist or capitalist, it has a dual nature with elements of both" typically one dominates over the other but to answer the question it would be worthwhile to point out what features are examples of capitalism and which are examples of socialism.
3. "a good place to begin when trying to work out if a state is socialist" I am not jus talking about the government of Russia I am talking about whether Russia is socialist mode of production or capitalist mode of production. The state is a separate but related question.
4. "investigate the relations of production and try and find out which class is in power and which one is not" Like I just mentioned this is simply restating the question. My first post is the only post here that contains any evidence related to this notion.
Plants posted:chickeon posted:the state was formally turned into a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie in tthe same process that banned the CPSU and killed millions of people in the country, i.e. the formal abolition of the dictatorship of the proletariat in favour of a purposely empowered capitalist class.
In some ways yes but It seems to me like everything that Russia has done in the last 20 years is a reversal of this process.
this impression would be unsustainable if you looked at the ceaseless efforts to suppress just such a reversal.... I'm not going to review and post 20 years of executive and legislative history of the Russian Federation but it's there, along with 20 years of Russian socialist political activity. The semblance you mention can only be mistaken in light of its disagreement with that material history and with 100% of actual Russian socialists. If you are really working in good faith then this is an opportunity to examine where and how you erred in credulously receiving this distorted appearance.
The FNPR is the largest association of workers in Russia affiliating 120 organisations including 38 All-Russian unions, inter-regional trade unions and 82 territorial associations of trade union organisations. Five All-Russian trade unions co-operate with the FNPR on the basis of agreements. Trade unions affiliated with the FNPR account for 20 million members, which is about 95 percent of all organised workers in Russia.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210226051610/https://news.yahoo.com/putin-still-communist-party-card-likes-socialist-ideals-183734163.html
Putin -- who has revived some Soviet traditions and state controls over his years ruling Russia -- said that he still "really likes" the ideals of communism,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Russia
The Constitution of the Russian Federation has provided all citizens the right to free healthcare since 1993.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vladimir-putin-bans-comparisons-between-soviets-and-nazi-germany-in-second-world-war-wtdtw6g9n
Cheap education
Cheap rent
https://www.rbth.com/politics_and_society/literature/2017/03/01/motherhood-russian-style_711598
Official maternity leave in Russia may last three years.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/china/china-wang-yi-moscow-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/world/europe/us-putin-nuclear-war-nato.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Communist_parties_in_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Russia
The Communist candidate (of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or the Communist Party of the Russian Federation) has finished second in every case: Nikolai Ryzhkov in 1991, Gennady Zyuganov in 1996, 2000 and 2008 and 2011, Nikolay Kharitonov in 2004 and Pavel Grudinin in 2018.
Security Council members France and Russia made clear that they did not consider these consequences to include the use of force to overthrow the Iraqi government
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
Commenting on Obama's address, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich opposed the U.S. intervention against ISIL in Syria "without the consent of the legitimate government" and said that "this step, in the absence of a UN Security Council decision, would be an act of aggression, a gross violation of international law".
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/crimeans-vote-overwhelmingly-to-secede-from-ukraine-join-russia/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/31/georgias-south-ossetia-plans-to-take-legal-steps-to-join-russia
https://tass.com/politics/1514667
referendums were held in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, as well as in the liberated territories of the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, on the issue of joining Russia. During the plebiscites, an overwhelming majority of the residents spoke in favor of joining Russia.
Out of all the people who have been posting here for years, who besides mustang would blast this site with a wad of Wikipedia links to try and make an argument. Just welcome the guy back if you really want him to post here.
Perhaps I have communicated myself badly. I support Marxism-Leninsm and I want to see all the oppressed people free ourselves from capitalism, national oppression, sexism, ableism, homophobia &c.
Marxism Leninism = scientific socialism. You are all acting as if this is an inappropriate question. I do not follow. Please explain.
I forgot everything I knew about socialism vs state owned enterprises. Please explain it to me again.
cars posted:posting nonstop spam gibberish in mustang’s exact manic-depressive style, for the sake of fart-right chanese “psyops” fantasies trying to convince this forum to… continue to oppose NATO Democrats, but for much dumber reasons… the exact pathologically perseverating behavior of two of this forum’s former posters who showed ass, melted down and became neo-Nazi prancylads
what in the world are you even accusing me of