#1281
that’s a new development here too, wimpy hand-wringing about calling fash trash by its name. Everyone here generally knows why the F word is treated as uh, verboten by polite left-liberal discourse... why recognizing fascist propaganda and naming it is met with nasal sarcasm from moldering Facebook Democrats about how you just committed a Godwin Offense. I admit… I didn’t think it would go from zero to Heil Hitler in this thread that fast
#1282
its a black friday special, 6 cars posts with the content of half of one
#1283
what exactly are u dumbasses talking about
#1284

marimite posted:

Fascism is an ideology of the labor aristocracy and the petite bourgeoisie, they don't need to be "corralled".



Let me emphasize, governments and the big bourgeoisie are acting opportunistically in response to a fascist movement among these people. When we talk about fascism we're being literal and making serious accusations. If you don't want to respond then please leave the forum alone, we don't need you here.

#1285
i'm actually agreeing with you marmite. perhaps there is some difference in what i'm pointing out regarding how the different major fronts that have seemed to consolidate are similarly being opportunistically driven toward fascist agenda. if it's not clear please tell me where i could do better.

shapes is the only person that acknowledged the content of some of my posts beyond indirect accusations (i might be misreading) which suggest i am furthering antivaccination propaganda.

i can sympathize with that to a degree, certainly in the current polarization there is a risk that arguments or information i'm stating can be hijacked opportunistically. hence why i'm reluctant to, although on the other hand i think there is a real life-threatening risk in collapsing all of this into predefined positions. so i'm hoping that in a context such as here there is desire for more constructive dialogue. what i'm trying to articulate is not a predefined 'position', but rather a series of perceptions and experiences resulting from where i'm situated.

this follows from something i mentioned some months ago, regarding my observations of a kind of endemic 'abuse victim' psychology of denying ones own experiences and therefore being unable to value/learn/act on it. that can lead to the unfortunate situation of making one complicit in their own abuse and that of others.

i appreciate that posters here might face different, and perhaps in some ways easier or more difficult, decisions in their daily life. meaning the frictions and contradictions one faces do not highlight the same things as others might experience. nevertheless, i am hopeful of an ongoing discussion that takes this into account.

Edited by Gssh ()

#1286

karphead posted:

what exactly are u dumbasses talking about


ifap the both of them til they calm themselves imo

#1287
sorry gssh, I meant pogfan and the other people still pushing the anti-vax nonsense and pretending it has nothing to do with fascism. I think what you're saying is fairly important in terms of the experiences of lumpen proles, but also that this move can lead to confusion if conflated with those of privileged workers. Trying to find a middle ground when dealing with the fascist rhetoric I think is a mistake, even if it's just "I'm afraid of being surveilled by the ruling class." We all know what "ruling class" means when used by these people, it doesn't matter if legitimate conspiracies exist or not. If the CIA is holding back workers from waging biological warfare on the planet to raise their consumption levels, then fine I'm in a tactical alliance with the CIA. Of course that's not what's happening, what's happening is that all these institutions are working to materialize the desires of these people except in the rare cases where their interests actually diverge. All the manipulations that people like speculate about only exist because the majority of people are already complicit, and that especially goes for the totally delusional western left. That's what social fascism is. We wouldn't be stuck in these stupid debates if people here actually took third worldism seriously.
#1288
i really dont see how anything i've posted could be understood as opposing vaccination or supporting fascism
#1289
right, you just think the discourse is driven by media jews and that the vaccines don't work anyway
#1290

marimite posted:

right, you just think the discourse is driven by media jews and that the vaccines don't work anyway



I capitalize the J in media Jews, I'm not a monster

#1291

cars posted:

the funniest part of our most recent psychotic breaks was the IFAP speeches we got about how the forums were dying because the speechifying patients weren't allowed to post, on the exact same days that people were telling me that they weren't going to post anytime soon exactly because of the people who got put in IFAP and the other people parroting their anti-vaccine far-right propaganda. when i looked at those messages vs the posts they were talking about, I could really tell which group had lives outside being reply guys, friends and family and active politics and hope for the future. or at least understood the value of those things to other people and why a global plague isn't debate club to them. It was funny in a pretty bleak way but still ha ha funny.



Personally I quit posting because of the shitshow over his sex/gender thread back in January. Not because it existed, or because I am of the lathe class, but rather because inviting someone to pre-ban people they don't know over posts they have surely misread is about as ridiculous as letting people announce their departure and demand that holes be cut in a forum where posts used to be. I suppose the difference vs all of the hypotheticals in your post is I don't have any cliques to announce my departure from. On the upside I don't have to worry about explaining myself if I change my mind and return later, which is nice!

PS: the fact that said thread from January has precisely one sane post in it, and it's from a gay guy with a Catholic family from Texas who posted in it 8 months after the fact is really a perfect summary of too-online politsperging in general. Please consider transferring the domain name and SSH keys to him immediately.

marimite posted:

If the CIA is holding back workers from waging biological warfare on the planet to raise their consumption levels, then fine I'm in a tactical alliance with the CIA.




PPS: I was just explaining to someone on another site that the only thing in the US/UK that can reasonably be construed as fascist are the CIA/NSA and MI5/MI6. That makes the above rather funny but you know what? Not fascist. Because I'm not insane (just mostly not sane).

Edited by Over9000ft ()

#1292
There's a lot of handwringing about why dumb Americans are not afraid of dying, and it's because their wage levels determine terms of trade for the rest of the planet. This kills more people than any military or intelligence agency is ever going to accomplish unless they shoot the nukes or something. Global warming, crappy pandemic response, poverty they benefit from all of it and are heavily incentivized to make them worse.
#1293
Imagine worrying about the media or the boogyman in your phone when 90% of the society you live in already despises you. I think that's why leftists find the CIA so scary, it's the phone thing.
#1294
idk if this is the best thread to discuss this but from my point of view there are a few people here that are being extremely combative to the point of killing discussion/interest in the forum. like there has to be some sort of intervention from a larger community perspective because letting this fester openly clearly isn't working. as a community we need to decide what we want things to look like going forward.

where this community is interesting for me is that we are starting from a relatively advanced understanding of labor aristocracy, communism, etc and we are able to work through problems without starting from the baby steps. clearly, that kind of discussion isn't possible if a few vocal members of the community are allowed to spam the forum with unfounded accusations of fascism, antisemitism, and anticommunism.

i also feel like the accusation that i'm some sort of online-only person is pretty unfair considering i've posted in-depth analysis of the political situation in my own community on here. i guess i'm just looking for some sort of conversation about what we want this community to be and to look like because I don't think the status quo has been working for anyone.

clearly the people who are taking an adversarial position to me in this thread aren't happy either, so this isn't a "woe is me" post. we've had people on all sides explode and swiss cheese the forum due to this conflict, and nobody except the fbi handlers are happy about it.

Edited by pogfan1996 ()

#1295

Over9000ft posted:

Personally I quit posting because of the shitshow over his sex/gender thread back in January.


i scanned this thread for the purpous of reminding myself what was "going on" and to make sure i didn't say anything enbarrasing, and as a bonus i got to laugh at my own jokes almost a year later, thanks!

#1296

marimite posted:

Imagine worrying about the media or the boogyman in your phone when 90% of the society you live in already despises you. I think that's why leftists find the CIA so scary, it's the phone thing.



Surely has nothing to do with their Salvadoran contractors bragging about skinning the feet of children in front of a camera.

#1297

pogfan1996 posted:

idk if this is the best thread to discuss this but from my point of view there are a few people here that are being extremely combative to the point of killing discussion/interest in the forum. like there has to be some sort of intervention from a larger community perspective because letting this fester openly clearly isn't working. as a community we need to decide what we want things to look like going forward.

where this community is interesting for me is that we are starting from a relatively advanced understanding of labor aristocracy, communism, etc and we are able to work through problems without starting from the baby steps. clearly, that kind of discussion isn't possible if a few vocal members of the community are allowed to spam the forum with unfounded accusations of fascism, antisemitism, and anticommunism.

i also feel like the accusation that i'm some sort of online-only person is pretty unfair considering i've posted in-depth analysis of the political situation in my own community on here. i guess i'm just looking for some sort of conversation about what we want this community to be and to look like because I don't think the status quo has been working for anyone.

clearly the people who are taking an adversarial position to me in this thread aren't happy either, so this isn't a "woe is me" post. we've had people on all sides explode and swiss cheese the forum due to this conflict, and nobody except the fbi handlers are happy about it.



This forum isn't the bastion of discussion you think it is. There are spaces with populations that are more numerous, more diverse (read more women and third world posters), and have a higher level of discussion in the way you mean. The only thing that keeps us here is the relationships we have with each other, or nostalgia. If the forum gets gassed, I'm happy to move on. This is a 10 year old forum and we've had a good run. However, I like most of you so I'm going to try to hash this out.

Pogfan I think you like to be provocative. Not only in this thread, but in general. You talk about third worldism, animal liberation, TERF-ism, and isolating people you think are maladjusted from activist spaces. The last thing is especially concerning to me. Of course I'm also sympathetic to some of those things and I think you're driven by a strong moral sense, but taken in combination it's problematic. Now recently we had a new poster and they were driven out of the forum. Not by any collective decision, but by one banned poster from a chatroom outside the forum. Liceo believed that the new poster was working with several personas in some kind of plot to undermine the forum. He claimed to have done a deep investigation into the poster's social media accounts and said he shared this information with you. I don't believe you ever vouched for the theory that this poster was actually a cop, but you thought the poster was maladjusted and were happy to see them leave. This was an opportunity to say that Liceo isn't the one to call the shots here and that there should be consultation with the actual admins of this forum. Instead you encouraged someone we all know actually has emotional issues and a drinking problem drive away this new poster. This was based on what I think was just a certain combination of cultural signifiers you find distasteful. I don't want to speculate too much on why you did this, but I think it has something to do with macho self-abnegation. Your profile pic is very appropriate if that's the case. Anyway, one thing this shows is that the chat needs moderation as well or at the very least admins should be keeping tabs on it.

In regards to this thread, earlier on I tried to frame the discussion in such a way that we could see the ideological features of each side as something related to how the communist movement actually functions. Of course I was very aggressive towards toyot whose aggressive workerism I was disgusted by, but in general I tried to criticize both sides while leaving room to allow each to claim their communist credentials. Gssh provided some very kind responses, which I regret not responding to. This was in part due to a feeling of ignorance of conditions in Spain and Southern Europe in general, and in part due to a feeling that Gssh was missing ideological elements of the discussion in a way I couldn't fully explain. However, those who have taken very aggressive positions on either side of the debate ignored my posts and continued to argue for exclusion of the opposing side. This might be due to me being a bad writer, but it felt insulting. Anyway, I think we should make proposals as to what we think should be the ideological parameters of the debate here and come to a collective decision, perhaps by a vote or some sort of consensus.

As we all know, this forum started as a haven for troll posters from both SA and its various off-sites. The site had a reputation not only for its communists, but for its fascists and crank intellectuals as well. I myself came here as a troll from reddit. Even as this forum settled on a more serious communist politics, this reputation has persisted. If we're going to give up on governing this forum, I'm happy to return to its origins and burn it all down in an epic trollathon. Taking vengeance on Maoists who have buried Emmanuel's Unequal Exchange theory for 50 years would be extremely satisfying to me.

#1298
.

Edited by neckwattle ()

#1299
itll be interesting to see if that vaccine study is able to be replicated. stephen gundry is a quack doctor that has been pushing the whole "COVID is a weapon unleashed by China" shit as well as a lot of really dubious nutritional advice. he's closely aligned to all of the tony robbins brand of bullshit.
#1300
my bad, didn't know. looks like it's gonna be retracted
#1301

marimite posted:

Now recently we had a new poster and they were driven out of the forum. Not by any collective decision, but by one banned poster from a chatroom outside the forum. Liceo believed that the new poster was working with several personas in some kind of plot to undermine the forum. He claimed to have done a deep investigation into the poster's social media accounts and said he shared this information with you. I don't believe you ever vouched for the theory that this poster was actually a cop, but you thought the poster was maladjusted and were happy to see them leave. This was an opportunity to say that Liceo isn't the one to call the shots here and that there should be consultation with the actual admins of this forum. Instead you encouraged someone we all know actually has emotional issues and a drinking problem drive away this new poster. This was based on what I think was just a certain combination of cultural signifiers you find distasteful.



and here i thought we weren't building a sect! what the hell is wrong with you people lol. touch grass, get a light therapy box, adopt a cat, etc etc.

#1302

marimite posted:



thanks for making it clear that your behavior is the result of some weird personal grudge

imo it's pig work to be trying to bring up previous posters and why they left in this context. obviously i disagree with your assessment but i don't think the result of us hashing this out in a public way is going to be beneficial to the community. it seems really weird to call liceo out in this context and i don't see any beneficial motive to doing it

#1303

marimite posted:

Imagine worrying about the media or the boogyman in your phone when 90% of the society you live in already despises you. I think that's why leftists find the CIA so scary, it's the phone thing.



People accusing what they're guilty of is a universal truth.

marimite posted:

There are spaces with populations that are more numerous, more diverse (read more women and third world posters), and have a higher level of discussion in the way you mean. The only thing that keeps us here is the relationships we have with each other, or nostalgia. If the forum gets gassed, I'm happy to move on. This is a 10 year old forum and we've had a good run. However, I like most of you so I'm going to try to hash this out.



No, there aren't. There are words on a screen. Their "spaces" are various URLs, nothing more. You suffer from phone brain. You are equating pixels on a screen to reality.

JohnBeige posted:

and here i thought we weren't building a sect! what the hell is wrong with you people lol. touch grass, get a light therapy box, adopt a cat, etc etc.



The only tragedy is that I have but one upvote to give.

Edited by Over9000ft ()

#1304
thanks for opening this up, it's a necessary conversation, however i think best to extend to new thread on internal site subforum (which is more private) if its going to branch out much from the particular topic of this thread.

marimite posted:

I think we should make proposals as to what we think should be the ideological parameters of the debate here and come to a collective decision,



this is a more achievable and constructive focus within this thread than trying to address all the intersecting grievances at once.

#1305

pogfan1996 posted:

marimite posted:

thanks for making it clear that your behavior is the result of some weird personal grudge

imo it's pig work to be trying to bring up previous posters and why they left in this context. obviously i disagree with your assessment but i don't think the result of us hashing this out in a public way is going to be beneficial to the community. it seems really weird to call liceo out in this context and i don't see any beneficial motive to doing it



Of course this is personal, we have a social club and I find your presence offensive. You've never had a personal dispute before? That you think this is some high level activist discussion that's going to be disrupted by the pigs is 100% delusional. If you were serious person you would have found other discussion spaces but you're not.

#1306
the idea that exposing doxxing done against a poster here is somehow pig work displays a mindblowing lack of political and self awareness.

E: I’ve had no less than four people contact me claiming searching someone’s username for hours and collating data across several platforms isn’t doxxing. If it’s not it’s certainly creepy, regardless of the problems with the poster in question. This isn’t an organization, your efforts in vetting people aren’t appreciated. This is merely a shitpost forum with politics pretensions and should be treated as such. Now back to the original post.

regardless, in their infinite wisdom, admins (or someone, idk) have given me the ability to probate people in this thread. as for why me, only the gods know. ive been reflecting on this for most of the day, attempting to tease out how exactly i should attempt to moderate one of the worst threads ive seen here in the last few years. as a result of this, and after consulting with several others that ive worked with irl, ive decided that my first act as thread dictator will be to probate anybody calling other posters fascist, or cops, or any other absurd thing they can pull out of their distended anus in their wild, flailing attempts to string words together to form something approximating sentences. if you feel that this might apply to yourself, please leave the thread of your own volition, at least for a few days. this dumpster fire will (unfortunately) be here when you return.

Edited by JohnBeige ()

#1307

JohnBeige posted:

ive decided that my first act as thread dictator will be to probate anybody calling other posters fascist, or cops, or any other absurd thing they can pull out of their distended anus in their wild, flailing attempts to string words together to form something approximating sentences.



well well well, looks like this thread finally has a cop

#1308

pogfan1996 posted:

idk if this is the best thread to discuss this but from my point of view there are a few people here that are being extremely combative to the point of killing discussion/interest in the forum.



you should stop posting

#1309

aerdil posted:

JohnBeige posted:

ive decided that my first act as thread dictator will be to probate anybody calling other posters fascist, or cops, or any other absurd thing they can pull out of their distended anus in their wild, flailing attempts to string words together to form something approximating sentences.

well well well, looks like this thread finally has a cop


#1310
Anti-vaccination propaganda is fascist propaganda. It is definitely an oink from the truffle farm.
#1311
pogfan you pass-agg whiner. a mysterious Someone is out to get you with their combative posting. Ooooh who's out to get you. stop posting fash trash or stop posting forever.
#1312

aerdil posted:

JohnBeige posted:

ive decided that my first act as thread dictator will be to probate anybody calling other posters fascist, or cops, or any other absurd thing they can pull out of their distended anus in their wild, flailing attempts to string words together to form something approximating sentences.

well well well, looks like this thread finally has a cop


fuck

cars posted:

Anti-vaccination propaganda is fascist propaganda. It is definitely an oink from the truffle farm.


hush

#1313
the chuang collective fellas have a book out that is all about covid and the state response to it in china, seems potentially very interesting although i haven't seen a pdf just yet so only going by the publisher's summary here https://www.akpress.org/social-contagion.html
#1314
Another successful thread by swampman
#1315

lo posted:

the chuang collective fellas have a book out that is all about covid and the state response to it in china, seems potentially very interesting although i haven't seen a pdf just yet so only going by the publisher's summary here https://www.akpress.org/social-contagion.html


it’s great. they did a podcast interview kinda thing where they just popcorned off a sheet of paper, doesn’t focus much on the new text but worth a listen:

https://fans.fm/p/NY6GMzq

#1316
remember covid? its back, in omicron form!
#1317
A Journal of the Plague Decade: Being Observations or Memorials, Of the most Remarkable Occurrences, As well Publick as Private, which happened Globally During the current Great Visitation beginning 2019
#1318
I kept holding off on buying my own mask because for the past two years I just kept thinking 'well if it takes three weeks to get here covid may as well be over then' but omicron finally got me to do it. I'm putting this new variant in the fucking GROUND.
#1319
was browsing cosmonaut to look at their recently posted translation of The Dialectics of Dependency and saw that last weekend they posted an article on long covid and its continued stakes
#1320
It is very funny to me that people who claim to identify with a political ideology that rationalizes how there is no peaceful means of power transfer, and that all true change must necessarily be violent, are also the same people who are flat out fuckin' terrified of a flu, lmao.

Edited by Over9000ft ()