Remarkable filing in the case of high-level Atomwaffen member Kaleb Cole outs Joshua Caleb Sutter, the publisher of Martinet Press (Iron Gates, Liber 333, Bluebird), AWD member & a key figure in the O9A Tempel ov Blood, as an FBI informant. Since '03 https://t.co/WDZNx5Eeen
— Ali Winston (@awinston) August 21, 2021
direct link to the document on the FBI/Atomwaffen guy... i guess it's official now that Order of Nine Angles ("O9A") is a Fed cut-out
toyot posted:cars posted:In 2020, those leaders and organizations (and organizations descended from the OWS-involved ones) started with that new understanding, that two bodies cannot occupy the same space at once and that's all you can count on when the cops are essentially armored infantry moving in formation. And proceeding from that, they found that when street actions were joined by unorganized locals, those acting could move in numbers big enough to physically crowd out the police. The police eventually began to respond in kind, abandoning large portions of metro areas to group in tight formation around certain arbitrary points.
centuries of street battles, but it was only after occupy wall street that the unarmed masses learned how raw numbers could crowd out police. and in turn, that police should stay in militarized formation, instead of diffusing a single cop per 10 city blocks. 'new understanding', what are you talking about?
this post is drawing some strange inferences from what cars was saying it seems to me. like, even if OWS was reactionary in its overall class orientation, there were genuine leftist and black organisers on the periphery of it, as cars and shriekingviolet have mentioned. if this is the case, why would those organisers have been unable to learn from what they saw in terms of police operations against the movement, regardless of that movement's prevailing class character? if i'm a communist and i see some police suppressing an anarchist movement for example, that could still tell me a lot about how the police work to destroy a movement they think is dangerous. in addition, these organisers having personal experience of something clearly doesn't invalidate 'centuries of street battles' - surely it adds to it, since the organisers might well be aware of those centuries from a historical point of view, but may not have personally experienced police action themselves if they're young.
cars posted:direct link to the document on the FBI/Atomwaffen guy... i guess it's official now that Order of Nine Angles ("O9A") is a Fed cut-out
it might be worth noting that O9A isn't a single organisation, most of their important ideological stuff stresses the need for independent cells that work autonomously with no central hierarchy or chain of command. still completely unsurprising that a bunch of those dudes would be feds though. it would also be very easy for feds to influence o9a groups if they wanted to, since all the documents are written pseudonymously and some of them are obviously by different people even though they've been attributed to the same person.
babyhueypnewton posted:Your politics conform to the early Lenin assessment of labor aristocracy as an upper crust of workers who we must fight for leadership of the working class rather than the late Lenin for whom there are oppressor and oppressed nations. That's basically every Marxist party as well
what writings illustrate the shift you're describing? i'm scouting around the collected works and I'm still seeing battle-the-labor-aristocracy talk in 1920, which wouldn't occur to me as his "early" period
toyot posted:maybe cars was making the maoist critique of insurrection, that 19th and 20th century history wrote in blood that urban insurrection is a failed war strategy, and slowly building red zones in the countryside and surrounding the cities (peoples war) is the successful one. i'm not sure that's the automatic conclusion everyone drew from OWS. the conclusions i see being drawn here are about 'lack of leadership', annoying GAs, the opportunists and careerists. in hindsight the imperial tailwind to the arab spring's movement of squares, which OWS consciously imitated, was probably underestimated at the time as an explanation for why those prolonged insurrections succeeded and ours failed like most have failed. and then there's its class composition, how its major novel demand was a debt jubilee for tuition and mortgages, benefiting the specific people who could buy land and get accepted to college in amerika between 1980 and 2010.
i don't think the arab spring is really a good example of a successful protest model. its not surprising amerika's movement of squares-imitation accomplished as much as most of the movements in north afrika & middle east, ie nothing. the most successful insurrections were completed within a matter of weeks; those that were prolonged either accomplished nothing, achieved modest or token reforms, shuffled around top posts in their governments, or most notably became entry points for imperialist projects to destroy the state that took all momentum and control out of the hands of the crowds in city squares
i don't know where you've gotten the idea that over the last 40 years home ownership and college tuition have been whites-only settler problems. the victims of 2008 housing crisis were overwhelmingly black and latinx. the same trend holds when you're looking at who burdensome college debt disproportionately affects, though that is much more of an aristocratic concern than having a house to live in
though i think anti-nato/g8 also got a more vague boost too
Edited by zhaoyao ()
招瑤 posted:a bunch of recently graduated 'middle class' white kids upset they can't afford to move into the suburbs because they can only find work at a coffeeshop is more of a hackneyed disparaging stereotype of occupy than a useful glimpse into its actual class composition as far as my memory goes
yeah, it’s a Just-So story, an after-the-fact attempt to over-simplify a complex and ongoing process by those without knowledge of it. kind of like the attempts to mischaracterize what i’m talking about with the lessons (real) organizations learned from (real) OWS history, though, the tall tale of OWS as a movement of boojy wannabe homebuyers is so out of touch with reality that its relevance is pretty much nil. it’s really just so much online posturing for the sake of building egos. Hell,
toyot posted:i don't think anyone would dispute what you're saying... learning about people power first-hand in street demos beats hearing about it. it's possible after getting called every nasty thing he could think of, that i wasn't in the mood to be charitable to cars. but click his post again and read the first half. aside from whether the lesson was new to OWS, it isn't even true that "the only space truly "occupied", truly secured, (is) the space underneath people's feet while they (are) still standing up." -- insurrections around the world build barricades to hold area for weeks w/o physically filling the area with boots, just the perimeter. if OWS taught the lesson he said, then it was a false lesson. and the question could have been tested more forcefully by actually building and manning barricades. that really wasn't the mood tho, the two occupations i went to had zero barricades. OWS survived for weeks on the graces of the police, who eventually treated it like a nationally-coordinated homeless encampment raid, and it took them weeks not because of any military strategy on the part of the occupiers, just the political reality that wall street is unpopular, so destroying the camp would be unpopular. so they waited till the novelty wore off. anyway, the lesson is neither new or true.
maybe cars was making the maoist critique of insurrection, that 19th and 20th century history wrote in blood that urban insurrection is a failed war strategy, and slowly building red zones in the countryside and surrounding the cities (peoples war) is the successful one. i'm not sure that's the automatic conclusion everyone drew from OWS. the conclusions i see being drawn here are about 'lack of leadership', annoying GAs, the opportunists and careerists. in hindsight the imperial tailwind to the arab spring's movement of squares, which OWS consciously imitated, was probably underestimated at the time as an explanation for why those prolonged insurrections succeeded and ours failed like most have failed. and then there's its class composition, how its major novel demand was a debt jubilee for tuition and mortgages, benefiting the specific people who could buy land and get accepted to college in amerika between 1980 and 2010.
but yes, to what you said, showdowns with the cops are important for every young lefty to witness and participate in! especially when we push them back and show everyone they're just men.
i think you're reading that post as making grand sweeping statements about The Way Things Work Everywhere when cars actually seems to be talking about the specific dynamics he's observed in orgs local to him and the lessons they learned from OWS.
Edited by solidar ()
solidar posted:Maybe a little slighted after all the years some of them put in at Guantanamo?
to be fair, guantanamo was mostly full of just regular guys
https://www.ft.com/content/075b888a-48b6-11e4-9d04-00144feab7de:
Khorasan, it turns out, exists and does not exist at the same time. The name coined by the US – the first appearance was in The New York Times a few days before the strikes – refers to a cell of veteran al-Qaeda operatives with bomb-making expertise who were apparently sent to Syria by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the al-Qaeda chief and successor to Osama bin Laden, to work with the Nusrah Front. The US strikes are believed to have killed Muhsin al-Fadli, the cell’s leader, who was very close to bin Laden.
What is less clear, however, is that this cell refers to itself as the Khorasan group – or that it considers itself a cell at all.
https://theintercept.com/2014/09/28/u-s-officials-invented-terror-group-justify-bombing-syria/
There are serious questions about whether the Khorasan Group even exists in any meaningful or identifiable manner. Aki Peritz, a CIA counterterrorism official until 2009, told Time: “I’d certainly never heard of this group while working at the agency,” while Obama’s former U.S. ambassador to Syria Robert Ford said: “We used the term inside the government, we don’t know where it came from….All I know is that they don’t call themselves that.” As The Intercept was finalizing this article, former terrorism federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy wrote in National Review that the group was a scam: “You haven’t heard of the Khorosan Group because there isn’t one. It is a name the administration came up with, calculating that Khorosan … had sufficient connection to jihadist lore that no one would call the president on it.”
While there have been reports of groups in Pakistan taking on the Khorasan label, analysts cast doubt that the term is being widely used within Syria to refer to any distinct group. “There have been no jihadis in Syria or to use that name when referring to themselves," Zelin said. "Some online jihadis have even characterized it as laughable."
Pieter van Ostaeyen, a historian and blogger who follows jihadist movements, writes in an e-mail that "in all of the official Jihadi accounts I follow(ed), the name never was mentioned."
intel community rebooting that play that petered out last time. "it's such a good word," sources say. "seems a shame to waste it"
Constantignoble posted:While there have been reports of groups in Pakistan taking on the Khorasan label, analysts cast doubt that the term is being widely used within Syria to refer to any distinct group. “There have been no jihadis in Syria or to use that name when referring to themselves," Zelin said. "Some online jihadis have even characterized it as laughable."
Pieter van Ostaeyen, a historian and blogger who follows jihadist movements, writes in an e-mail that "in all of the official Jihadi accounts I follow(ed), the name never was mentioned."
it's hard to find a good reference now but it was basically the same with al qaeda. they found out the yanks were calling them that and decided to adopt it. khorosan group just doesn't have a ring to it. sounds like something a think tank nerd would come up with
lmao you have to respect the complete contempt the american media has for the public when they publish this shit. "Oh btw we were talking to the new shadowy terrorist groups leaders during a filmed interview two weeks ago, what a coincidence" https://t.co/p2BHLMWfsz
— ssj4 chicagoku (@take_japper) August 29, 2021
https://thecradle.co/Article/investigations/1401 posted:The shadow army are Afghan militias set up back in the early 2000s to engage in ‘counter-insurgency’ – that lovely euphemism for search and destroy ops against the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Along the way, these militias practiced, in droves, that proverbial semantic combo normalizing murder: ‘extrajudicial killings,’ usually a sequel to ‘enhanced interrogations.’ These ops were always secret as per the classic CIA playbook, thus ensuring there was never any accountability.
...
Inevitably, CIA and JSOC got into a catfight over controlling the top militias. That was solved by the Pentagon lending Special Forces to the CIA under the Omega Program. Under Omega, the CIA was tasked with targeting intel, and Special Ops took control of the muscle on the ground. Omega made steady progress under the reign of former US President Barack Obama: it was eerily similar to the Vietnam-era Operation Phoenix.
Ten years ago, the CIA army, dubbed Counter-terrorist Pursuit Teams (CTPT), was already 3,000 strong, paid and weaponized by the CIA-JSOC combo. There was nothing ‘counter-insurgency’ about it: These were death squads, much like their earlier counterparts in Latin America in the 1970s.
...
The Taliban may be essentially a collection of warlords (jang salar, in Dari). But what’s certain is that a new government will simply not allow a militia wasteland scenario similar to Libya. Thousands of mercenaries of sorts with the potential of becoming an ersatz ISIS-Khorasan, threatening Afghanistan’s entry into the Eurasian integration process, need to be tamed.
