sovnarkoman posted:
the whole thing is stupid and gross but can we just single this out for particular ridicule
The uprising’s fate hinges on whether significant numbers of the military switch sides and whether ordinary people heed Guaidó’s call to flood the streets.
1a is consistently garbage made worse by the fact that i only hear a 2am rerun of the previous day's show so i can't even indulge the fantasy of frothing into my phone at their answering machine while my work truck is upside-down in a ditch
cars posted:getfiscal posted:My limited interactions with some altright trolls makes me think they know they are wrong. They are entirely products of the contemporary liberal culture, which they deeply accept at a certain level, but then antagonize people with those beliefs in order to force confrontations that are like a rock bottom equivalent of a relationship. Like how parents say that sometimes kids think that any attention is good attention. If they attack feminism and it forces some sort of obvious reaction then I think there is this underlying fantasy that they will be confronted and corrected.
per the media they consume they deep down believe that a woman or maybe a man will come along to force them to admit they are wrong and retrain them like a misbehaving housepet and then marry them forever. it's not below conscious thought either, i think almost anyone could easily catfish most of them into admitting this is their fantasy
This is more about the media in general, but I've become more and more convinced the above is true by what I see of far-right Online people's obsessions.
Most of them consume serialized media in what they openly admit is a form of intensely ideated escape from their real lives, and from my limited knowledge there, it seems like most of what they consume is a sort of evolution of the "harem" model of plot, where a guy in some formative or uncertain stage of life finds himself surrounded by women who irrationally desire him and compete over him, side-tracking his nonexistent life into "annoying" excitement. But plot summaries of the newer stuff seems to suggest a more contemporary self-loathing twist where the guy is, instead of a well-meaning dope, a generalized total loser in every single way, while every single one of the women are superior to him in some obvious way: smarter, stronger-willed, physically stronger, etc. It's a fantasy that sums up everything these guys complain about with current Western media, complaints that become unwitting imitations of certain feminist pop-culture critiques, about how the guy is always weak, the guy is always stupid, the woman is a superhuman who keeps both of their lives together, etc.
It's also the exact model of the stuff that far-right Online people thirstily collect and re-post about the supposed ubiquity of cuckold fetishism. It's even a not-half-buried erotic motivation for the same hoard-and-re-traumatize behavior with "compilation" media about angry feminists (imagined through their lens as the sexual object) and trans kids (imagined as themselves or their fantasy partners adopting a lifestyle that puts the obsessed Online guy in a socially submissive role, something they envy in that version of the story, because they suspect it would make them happy and they've been cheated out of it).
Bookmarking, repeat-viewing, folders full of this stuff they trade with each other, all for entirely visceral reasons: it's porn.
In general, I'm skeptical about crude versions of the idea that repression of what's being attacked is what motivates the behavior. Like, I don't think most people obsessed with "the gay agenda" are gay. But as a working bias on my part, I tend to assume that the reason that e.g. these "cringe compilation" videos have millions of views on YouTube is just the Internet acting as a source of porn, or a source of effective porn that leads to erotic fantasy regardless of its supposed intent.
It's probably important that when you look at the cuckold-fetish-related images these guys pass around and obsess over, the ones that are supposed to provide evidence of a man-killing epidemic, the most popular images are always obvious fakes designed by one of them in a sadomasochistic-manic urge to piss themselves and others off. People outside of their circles could tell them those images were fake immediately, and usually do in public online arenas, but in contravention of the far-right guys' desire to believe they're more skeptical and hard-nosed than even their own peers, they never accept that obvious truth. They really want to believe those images are real even if they know they're faked, just as though it were their celebrity crush's head Photoshopped onto a low-res hardcore-spank-site JPEG.
And it's not crazy surprising to me that there's this entire second level of it rapidly developing among DSA-oriented "democratic socialist" guys whose main gripe about liberalism is they think it keeps them from passing off racial slurs as brilliant stand-up comedy. These guys "ironically" transform their entire online presence into the same obsession with the same ideas, using the same terms and images (and they, too, lose the ability to tell which ones are fake). That probably comes from the same frustrated place, given those guys find themselves in the same place as the non-ironic types: they're petit-bourgeois singles angry they don't own a house like their dads did at their age. Class matters.
Far-right Online guys and their faux-but-not-really counterparts—who are already obsessed with the trauma of public shame, tailoring their own images among each other online and hiding what they really find enjoyable or stressful (and they're really bad at fooling anyone else with that)—see something that expresses performative loathing for cuckolding, or women shouting at a man for whatever reason, or cross-dressing, etc., and they think about how they hate it and how it sucks, and how much they'd hate to be the people they're gawking at or, in the case of women, how they'd have the perfect put-down or comeback that would really rock that woman back on her heels, and they begin riding down the rails toward a particular favorite fantasy. And pretty soon after that, they start masturbating.
kinch posted:theres a popular 8chan board where they fantasize about sjw femdom girls humiliating them
finding this out is like being struck blind by a look beyond the veil, now I have the knowledge but was it worth the price?
cars posted:In general, I'm skeptical about crude versions of the idea that repression of what's being attacked is what motivates the behavior. Like, I don't think most people obsessed with "the gay agenda" are gay. But as a working bias on my part, I tend to assume that the reason that e.g. these "cringe compilation" videos have millions of views on YouTube is just the Internet acting as a source of porn, or a source of effective porn that leads to erotic fantasy regardless of its supposed intent.
Hmm. I don't have a well thought out theory about how the mechanism works, but transferring over what I've read of fascism, alt-right online spaces are male autarkies that exclude women. Homophobia is functional because it disavows potentially cooperative possibilities between men as way of ordering society; homosexuality is a form of male bonding that is not purely competitive which is why it's suppressed. Like, in the Victorian era, homophobia intensified as men were being conscripted in large numbers for the purposes of war and imperialism.
I also think there's a similar phenomenon with homophobic adolescent males whose only friends are other boys. Gay panic emerges from closed homosocial environments like that as a way to maintain the drive to dominate. But I don't understand why in the most extreme and toxic of these male-only spaces like 8chan, they also fantasize about being dominated.
I've gotta say, though, once some of these IRL far-right groups get their act together enough to perform some of their little street circuses, their appearance does look pretty similar to the fashion you'd see in gay clubs with the polo shirts and undercuts. I'm gay myself, and most certainly see repressed gay men in these movements. There was one of these guys in West Germany in the 1980s named Michael Kuehnen -- a real sad case. But I share your skepticism. Like you said, it's crude. The masculinist presentation in gay spaces being superficially similar to how fascist groups visually appear is more of a distraction here, I think, resulting from both being homosocial environments. This surface appearance has opened fascism up to communist and liberal attacks as fascism being basically gay or in a repressed form, but this is akin to blaming the victim.
There also might be some fashy tradwives posting on some of these sites but they are few in number; at least they're not "part of the conversation." Women are still needed, though, to prevent homosexuality, thus they take on this fetish symbol; object of rape, etc. "Sentimental" attraction to women is to be scorned.
The Italian fascist ideologue Filippo Marinetti wrote a pornographic novel in 1908 called "Mafarka the Futurist" in which the king of Tel el-Kebir, a North African fortress, conqueres his enemies (the first chapter is about a mass rape) and then reproduces himself asexually by creating a winged, biomechanical demigod named Gazurmah. Believe it or not, I came across a passage while reading about this book that reminded me of the alt-right slang "roastie." The listing in Urban Dictionary gives a sense of the warped mindset here:
The degenerated condition of the average sexually-liberated western female's vagina, as a result of riding the cock carousel through her teens and 20's before hitting the wall and trying to get one of the beta bux -- who she denied while it was still tight and she still looked good -- to put a ring on her finger and lick her recycled Arby's; which he will, because the world is full of thirsty beta enablers stupid enough to marry women who have had their capacity to love atomized into obliteration over a decade of getting shaken like she's in a paint shaker and then painted by cocks whose names she doesn't even remember.
Mafarka also shares a horror with female genitalia, and rejects women (a temptress named Colubbi) just as Gazurmah is about to be born:
Back, you foul hyena keeper! ... Take yourself far away, with your pack that thrives on rotting sexual organs! ... I won't allow you to see my son! He is mine alone! It is I who made his body. It is I who engender him through sheer exertion of my will! ... And I didn't call on you to help me! ... I did not lay you on your back and pump the divine seed into your ovaries, with heaves of pleasure! ... The seed is still there, in my heart, in my brain! I have to be alone to bring my son to life!"
Gazurmah then comes to life and kills Mafarka (he is to be reborn in Gazurmah's body), and then flies into the sky and finds Colubbi floating on the ocean below and murders her as she warns him that by killing her he is killing the world. Gazurmah then rises into the sky covered in blood ranting about how the world must die so a new era can dawn. Anyways, that's fascism for you.
trakfactri posted:a pornographic novel in 1908 called "Mafarka the Futurist" in which the king of Tel el-Kebir, a North African fortress, conqueres his enemies (the first chapter is about a mass rape) and then reproduces himself asexually by creating a winged, biomechanical demigod named Gazurmah
shit like this is why i log in
How dare those scheming Chinese pervert the pure innocence of the NSA's hacking tools by using them for hacking. Will the barbaric depravity never end?
aerdil posted:and, speaking of delving into absurd north korean-type propaganda efforts, the reporters covering china have decided to just go full blown "everything is fake propaganda for tourists and reporters" with their western china coverage:
remember, one of the biggest claims being made about xinjiang is that the uyghur language is being eradicated.
It's mostly about how his sudden "surge" in glowing press coverage and fundraising is pretty unlikely given the trajectory of his campaign, almost impossible even, so it must mean he's real good. LOL
buttigieg: naval
My guess is that once young people raised on that myth get a little older, we'll see some sort of social movement to "revive" that mythical public life, and while it'll probably be used as an excuse for gross predators it could have some benefits too.
Petrol posted:One thing that stands out about the anti-China hysteria at the moment is liberals relishing the opportunity to be super racist and then denounce their critics as the Real Nazis
It's also an area where you can see the liberals and Trump align, but I'm thinking the direct relationship might be because both have been co-opted by the national security establishment a.k.a. The Blob a.k.a. gelatinous war cube. Another possibility is that after Trump campaigned on racist scapegoating, he was able to woo or co-opt The Blob or create a structure where it became okay within The Blob to move over to Trump's side, bringing the liberals and much of the media with it (suspended inside) and activating their pent-up racism.
I suppose I'm marveled at how people are able to parrot lines from the newspapers about "intellectual property theft" like anyone should particularly care. Equity holders of Merck & Co. or the Walt Disney Company are probably affected by Chinese buying knock-off DVD copies of Marvel movies, but the assumption is if the Chinese weren't doing that they'd be paying full price + a large popcorn and a large drink, but they probably wouldn't, so the aggregate impact on the U.S. economy is pretty small.
cars posted:One thing I think is nice nowadays is how folks are busily inventing a myth that before smartphones, people in the English-speaking world just randomly talked to each other in public about all sorts of topics and trying to start a conversation with a total stranger about something that interested you wasn't treated as pushy or crazy.
My guess is that once young people raised on that myth get a little older, we'll see some sort of social movement to "revive" that mythical public life, and while it'll probably be used as an excuse for gross predators it could have some benefits too.
I'll admit ive been falling for that myth myself. Thanks for making me do a double-take.
I've been thinking about 'communities' a lot lately. People throw that word around like it's nothing. Did your neighbor, who you've never spoken to, plant some flowers near the street? Congrats, you live in a community. The richest people in a 1-mile radius gather twice a year to veto safe-injection sites? Just like the Paris commune!
The whole of the Canadian Community is United around the Toronto Raptors! Except the homeless: they've been temporarily shepparded behind tents so the cameras can't see them and break the spell for us at home.
trakfactri posted:Petrol posted:One thing that stands out about the anti-China hysteria at the moment is liberals relishing the opportunity to be super racist and then denounce their critics as the Real Nazis
It's also an area where you can see the liberals and Trump align, but I'm thinking the direct relationship might be because both have been co-opted by the national security establishment a.k.a. The Blob a.k.a. gelatinous war cube.
foreign policy tends not to differ substantially between the two main parties, just the rhetoric.
Belphegor posted:cars posted:One thing I think is nice nowadays is how folks are busily inventing a myth that before smartphones, people in the English-speaking world just randomly talked to each other in public about all sorts of topics and trying to start a conversation with a total stranger about something that interested you wasn't treated as pushy or crazy.
My guess is that once young people raised on that myth get a little older, we'll see some sort of social movement to "revive" that mythical public life, and while it'll probably be used as an excuse for gross predators it could have some benefits too.I'll admit ive been falling for that myth myself. Thanks for making me do a double-take.
I've been thinking about 'communities' a lot lately. People throw that word around like it's nothing. Did your neighbor, who you've never spoken to, plant some flowers near the street? Congrats, you live in a community. The richest people in a 1-mile radius gather twice a year to veto safe-injection sites? Just like the Paris commune!
The whole of the Canadian Community is United around the Toronto Raptors! Except the homeless: they've been temporarily shepparded behind tents so the cameras can't see them and break the spell for us at home.
myths, be they inspirational or fearful, are the most important force in driving us away from self destruction and towards betterment. As Dr. Peterson says fffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
