#15761
Post rating: ~
behold, a rebellion against the moral values of the whitey

#15762
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It's not like Petrol brought this up apropos of nothing. He updated a post he had made earlier about the guy.

We celebrate a lot of deaths of shitty people on the Rhizzone.

#15763
Post rating: ~

sovnarkoman posted:

behold, a rebellion against the moral values of the whitey



What the hell is wrong with this thread? bhpn was absolutely correct, this "moral outrage" at behavior of members of oppressed classes is ridiculous

#15764
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being outraged by such behavior is definitely counterrevolutionary lol

#15765
Post rating: +
if it must continue please move this discussion to the rap thread.
#15766
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I'm done anyway, if huey or anyone else has a complaint about my posting you can address it to my ass
#15767
Post rating: +
reading some more epic posts in the reading thread
#15768
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:

Badiou is fine but he has no influence in academia at all, his philosophy will die with him.



maybe, yeah... and it’s sad to me because the main reason why, imo, is that he kept trying to carve a channel back to philosophy in pursuit of objective and universal conclusions, but he never threw the baby out with the bath water and into the farcical realm of “analytic” word games. if he had been a little less merciless to subjectivity in his approach to the subject, or had just gone full-on prescriptivist and completely disowned his biggest influences, he’d probably have a coterie of fanatical apostles on one side of the discipline or the other, eager to re-perform his work for decades to come. the Cantorian set theory of cleaning your room

#15769
Post rating: +
Look at the interview above: he's a fucked up kid, but the only reason he was propelled onto the cultural radar at all is because of heavily suspect machinery behind him. Adam Grandmaison is an old white dude (and also a serial abuser) whose face just fucking screams prison Cointelpro recruit, and whose entire thrust seems to be the promotion of a new counterreaction in hip hop, diluting it into the histrionics and violent banality typical of this guy and some other such figures, who've been for example trying to kill Chief Keef, been seen traipsing around Chicago with police escorts, etc. etc. Industry plants" are real and so is the past involvement of the feds in shaping hip hop, I wouldnt be surprised if it was happening again. So i think BHPN is only sort of right, I do think it's absurd to suspend moral judgment just because somebody's from an oppressed class, but at the same time we should recognize that very often this kind of individual brutality is bred by a perfectly engineered ecosystem of oppression, which sustains itself from the bloodshed it creates and invests the surplus back into the spectacle. There's a clear pattern of the artificial promotion of these lumpen kids into positions of cultural relevance where they can proceed to fuck with things...

Edited by neckwattle ()

#15770
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
fwiw though bhpn, on badiou and the post-‘68 party, i more or less agree... it comes down i think to the same thing i mentioned before about his analogies to communism: premature and extreme pessimism about popular support for the socialist project, even if it’s mere rhetorical support, that seemed a lot more tenable to a lot more people pretty recently, and a sort of stubbornness in abandoning that pessimism and conclusions based on it. the history of the CPC since has a lot to do with it. but that’s not really an excuse, i think even badiou would admit (if he ever concluded he was mistaken) that failing to anticipate an opportunity to revive even just the old language in the West is a substantial screw-up. or maybe he wouldn’t, maybe i should try to ask him before it’s too late...

that whole thing personally makes me feel good, in that i’ve been a pollyanna about the whole thing for years & argued with the guy who introduced me to badiou about it, and also bad because i still would not have predicted that shift would have happened in my lifetime. and of course that’s putting aside whether Westerners reading marx and lenin nowadays matter to the future of socialism, and if so, if they have learned anything at all from the errors of Kautsky, Trotsky, etc. and can draw from any material basis to avoid them, or whether there is nowhere for them to go from here except a complete revival of social fascism to the active detriment of workers and the oppressed, which i guess is the default rhizzone position still
#15771
Post rating: +

neckwattle posted:

I do think it's absurd to suspend moral judgment just because somebody's from an oppressed class, but at the same time we should recognize that very often this kind of individual brutality is bred by a perfectly engineered ecosystem of oppression,


Since there is still apparently some misunderstanding I will clarify that yes, I believe the popular discourse of individual responsibility is reactionary bullshit, but that the case in hand is so clearly beyond the pale that considerations of structural oppression are practically redundant. Foolishly, I expected that the obviousness of the above, combined with the political character of this community and its members' familiarity with me, meant that I could call X "a really bad person" and not be likened to a nazi condemning blacks as savages. My bad?

#15772
Post rating: +
sorry if I wasn't clear - I wasn't trying to pin BHPN's accusations on you, I was just trying to say that in addition to being a bad person, the dude was essentially in the service of reactionary cultural forces, and that we should be talking about how his existence was owed more or less entirely to the machinations of the industry. like it's more important to focus on the fact that we even know about him, given that the abuse was in the open from the start. he's obviously not unique in being a homophobe and abuser and it points really clearly at the rottenness of the industry which imo is more important to discuss than his own actions. a "New Synthesis" between both positions if you will
#15773
Online
Post rating: +
The guy brutally and extremely beat his pregnant gf wtf
#15774
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BHPN absolutely cannot resist that sweet temptation to undermine a correct political line by applying it in the most inappropriate self-defeating way possible with maximum bluster. it's only a matter of time until we see him on an episode of My Strange Addiction
#15775
Post rating: +

neckwattle posted:

and that we should be talking about how his existence was owed more or less entirely to the machinations of the industry.


talking about individuals being "artificially promoted" in an era where artists need preexisting followings, brand identity, potential memeability, youtube hits & soundcloud streams before they get even a chance of a cent of record label money belies decades out of date understanding of the music industry imo

#15776
Poronto
Post rating: +

blinkandwheeze posted:

belies



betrays

#15777
Post rating: ~

littlegreenpills posted:

blinkandwheeze posted:

belies

betrays



bellagio

#15778
Post rating: +

blinkandwheeze posted:

neckwattle posted:


and that we should be talking about how his existence was owed more or less entirely to the machinations of the industry.


talking about individuals being "artificially promoted" in an era where artists need preexisting followings, brand identity, potential memeability, youtube hits & soundcloud streams before they get even a chance of a cent of record label money belies decades out of date understanding of the music industry imo



I was only talking about the Grandmaison interview, arguably one of the main things that made him famous. it's naive to think that the record industry doesn't at least try to maintain its grip, of course it's harder than in the past when they controlled literally all the means of production and distribution, and I'm obviously not saying xxxtentacion had some Miami condo-analogue to the Brill Building working behind him lol. but people like Grandmaison are one of the ways in which individual artists are lifted out of the Soundcloud ferment and folded into the mainstream, whether or not he's acting literally at the behest of the record industry doesn't change the fact that what he's pushing fits neatly into their interests. the manufactured artist still exists, they're no longer assembled in the factory but a lot of control on the overall landscape is still exerted in subtler ways. anyway rest in piss

Edited by neckwattle ()

#15779
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +
fuck XXXthenation, not for brutally beating his partner so publicly that he had to be put down by vigilantes, but for the inevitable men's-rights-activist music industry response
#15780
Post rating: +

blinkandwheeze posted:

neckwattle posted:

and that we should be talking about how his existence was owed more or less entirely to the machinations of the industry.

talking about individuals being "artificially promoted" in an era where artists need preexisting followings, brand identity, potential memeability, youtube hits & soundcloud streams before they get even a chance of a cent of record label money belies decades out of date understanding of the music industry imo



https://djbooth.net/features/2015-08-31-mainstream-radio-truth

It's still the major labels that decide who gets played tho.

#15781
Post rating: +
tpaine's posts in the hip hop thread being deleted is the rhizzone version of Yezhov being airbrushed
#15782
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
that’s two different issues though isn’t it? the channels and labels don’t manufacture fame, they act as gatekeepers, and the sole major criteria is: did you sign to a label after you proved you could already make a ton of money for one? the labels are still happy nowadays to farm out all the shit that leads up to that, everything bnw listed, to the artist themselves, at the artist’s expense. but then woe betide the artist who says, well, I did all that shit myself, why do I need a label to get on the radio?

which isn’t to say it’s totally arbitrary how that works and why, as we recently celebrated the seventh anniversary of lupe fiasco pointing out that barack obama was 2011’s World’s Biggest Terrorist. you can look at how wigged out people got in the specialty hip-hop press and the aftermath to it for an example of how the gatekeeping of artists isn’t completely arbitrary as concerns what they say and do. there’s an upper limit placed on how difficult it can be to dilute, coopt, etc. and people are warned off all the time. like kanye mentioned going to DPRK in a lyric as something he might be wild enough to do, in the press that became a “shout out to North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Un”, so imagine if he’d actually delivered one
#15783
Post rating: ~
I regret the language that I used because it only made it easy to distract from the core issue and upset everyone. But honestly, posting about the crimes and moral corruption of poor black men who come from broken families and learned to be men in prison and then celebrating their deaths on behalf of other poor black men could have come from any right wing collection of "chimp out" posts. Except worse since everyone knows that's racist, disguising it as on behalf of gay people and women makes it insidious.

blinkandwheeze posted:

I think executions for violent abusers & torturers of women is standard rHizzonE line, & bringing racial politics into it is much more racially suspect than just forwarding the normal position in all cases. Just imo.



it wasn't a political execution, it was inter-ghetto violence that us white people get to wax poetic about. Do we have to get into Fanon and how colonialism doesn't make the oppressed into nice little liberal fantasies and it's still racist to focus on that?

#15784
Post rating: ~
It's pathetic that you should ignore my PM and come back here to have the last word, rewording things in a mealy mouthed way to pretend you're not once again calling me a nazi. If this is how toxic things are going to be around here from now on I'm gonna have to pull a tpaine and peace the fuck out
#15785
Post rating: +

neckwattle posted:

it's naive to think that the record industry doesn't at least try to maintain its grip


obviously i don't believe this, but like cars suggested, i'm saying that the record industry tries to maintain its grip effectively solely by betting on guaranteed expected returns with their now extremely limited capital. these decisions might as well be made entirely by an algorithm that tabulates upward trends in twitter memes and instagram soundtracks

marimite posted:

It's still the major labels that decide who gets played tho.


this is what i mean, radio stations barely have any semblance of the influence they once did. the causality is entirely reversed here now, radio stations try to play material to convince the kids who solely consume media through soundcloud / spotify / youtube to listen to them, they have an entirely negligible role in determining what that material actually is

#15786
Post rating: ~

Petrol posted:

It's pathetic that you should ignore my PM and come back here to have the last word, rewording things in a mealy mouthed way to pretend you're not once again calling me a nazi. If this is how toxic things are going to be around here from now on I'm gonna have to pull a tpaine and peace the fuck out



Actually it was tpaine who warned me about this. Ignored your pm because i didn't want this discussion to be personal and I already apologized for my language. Not fair to everyone reading and who spoke up if it gets buried. But I guess I should have known, the next step beyond never admitting wrong is that no apology is ever good enough. Now I'm actually done with this though, I'll let others be the judge.

E: Even though this place is tiny, it still has a heirarchy, and I'd rather Dimashq who spoke up be rewarded than let the kingpins try and restore the peace.

#15787
Post rating: +
No jumper is a good example because it shows that the industry are literally making decisions based on the virability of youtube vlogger interviews. dude interviews dozens of other soundcloud struggle rappers that don't get contracts because the videos don't get hits. if grandmaison is representative of the industry it's as a feeling out of who has enough of a following to make investment profitable, and that profitability is determined by the artist already having the qualities that record labels used to be responsible for

like in this case i think your definition of manufactured artist is just that record labels are amenable enough to their personality and message to not literally sabotage potential profitability. but that would still be the case if artists were woke anti-violence conscious rappers too
#15788
Post rating: ~
i think i read somewhere (probably in the uber thread) that spotify and all those streaming services has actually lead record labels to increase profits in the last few years since now theyre getting paid all these licensing fees which they werent back in 2008 or w/e. of course spotify themselves dont make money so maybe the gravy train will end sometime soon.

no real point, just idle thoughts here.
#15789
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:

E: Even though this place is tiny, it still has a heirarchy, and I'd rather Dimashq who spoke up be rewarded than let the kingpins try and restore the peace.



im fairly amenable to letting long-time posters just duke it out for a bit since i mostly trust you and petrol not to post goatse a million times or whatever. that's a hierarchy but i dont think its unearned. honestly i'd let ifapped people out pretty quick too but i dont think i have any control over that probation system

#15790
Post rating: +

babyhueypnewton posted:

Actually it was tpaine who warned me about this. Ignored your pm because i didn't want this discussion to be personal and I already apologized for my language. Not fair to everyone reading and who spoke up if it gets buried. But I guess I should have known, the next step beyond never admitting wrong is that no apology is ever good enough.


what is this histrionic bullshit. if you've personally hurt someone, they reach out to you over pm, and you regret how you spoke, it shouldn't be so goddamn difficult for you to make nice. this problem that follows you everywhere isn't because of your righteous ideological purity. no one gives a fuck how Correct your politics are when every conversation you're involved in self destructs because of your inability to relate and resolve conflicts like an adult. this isn't reddit where they have a billion kindergarten cop mods substituting for a lack of basic social skills, we may be glib with each other but we also try to have some vestige of an actual community. that means being responsible for the things you say to people, to those people.

#15791
Post rating: ~
the "problem" isnt the only thign that follows him everywhere and its really beyond objectively ridiculous to cite decorum here considering petrols response
#15792
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Granted it was an emotional response but when you've been a member of a community for years and one of your peers calls you a fucking nazi because you made a flippant remark about a dead asshole who happens to be black, well, you might just feel some kind of way.

I was reflecting earlier on the posts that started all this, and the things that I said about x, that he was a "really bad person" (said while he was still alive) and that his shooting "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy", I would just as readily said about john lennon if that was a current event. Shit, look at all my posts in the sam kriss/metoo thread (which would have been a better place for my initial X post in retrospect), I have always been unforgiving of abusers of women, advocated castration of rapists, etc. The suggestion that I not only should have kept my mouth shut because it was a black rapper, but that by opening it I have revealed myself as a white supremacist, boggles my fucking mind and yes, hurts my feelings. So did I lash out in my initial response? Yes, but I was trying to make a point, however poorly thought out it was with the benefit of hindsight. The fact that huey persists in condemning me as racist confirms in my mind that he is projecting and is in fact himself the person who needs to self reflect and change
#15793
Post rating: ~
btw to cars, drwhat, thirdplace: gibbonstrength is due to be let out
#15794
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
Yes
YES
The poster is out
#15795
Post rating: +
at last after 9000 years here's me

https://rhizzone.net/forum/topic/14531/

this is what you're reading now: the big one,
#15796
Post rating: ~

Petrol posted:

Granted it was an emotional response but when you've been a member of a community for years and one of your peers calls you a fucking nazi because you made a flippant remark about a dead asshole who happens to be black, well, you might just feel some kind of way.

I was reflecting earlier on the posts that started all this, and the things that I said about x, that he was a "really bad person" (said while he was still alive) and that his shooting "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy", I would just as readily said about john lennon if that was a current event. Shit, look at all my posts in the sam kriss/metoo thread (which would have been a better place for my initial X post in retrospect), I have always been unforgiving of abusers of women, advocated castration of rapists, etc. The suggestion that I not only should have kept my mouth shut because it was a black rapper, but that by opening it I have revealed myself as a white supremacist, boggles my fucking mind and yes, hurts my feelings. So did I lash out in my initial response? Yes, but I was trying to make a point, however poorly thought out it was with the benefit of hindsight. The fact that huey persists in condemning me as racist confirms in my mind that he is projecting and is in fact himself the person who needs to self reflect and change



thats understood (now) and i wasnt trying to jump down your throat. what i should have made clear is that my post was about shriekingviolet's assertion that "every conversation you're involved in self destructs because of your inability to relate and resolve conflicts like an adult", which is a jaw-droppingly dishonest characterization--coming from someone who immediately escalated the situation in the exact same maximum-snark fashion--of a poster who, in the admittedly short time ive been here, has been twice been overruled by ancient and irrelevant drama and who was ridiculed when he suggested that criticism of his past behavior was being deployed cynically as a cheap ploy to get past the substance of whatever point he might want to make. what bhpn was effectively told was not that he was wrong or out of line or anything like that, but that he lacked the standing to speak to the issue at all, in the typical fashion of any internet message board where arguments are settled according to what peg the participants hang from

#15797
Post rating: ~

kamelred posted:

what bhpn was effectively told was not that he was wrong or out of line


He was definitely told in no uncertain terms that what he said was both wrong and out of line

#15798
Post rating: ~
lets all just agree huey is drizzy and im push, and move on.
#15799
Post rating: ~
anyone know a good introduction to physics?
#15800
Post rating: ~
The Feynman Lectures

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feynman_Lectures_on_Physics