EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
also lol at the idea that i'm fetishizing nonwhites or something littlegreenpills
lmfao you gaylord
xipe posted:
hey tinkzorg; how are you gonna get european natives to accept immigrant peoples as central in their society?
im not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants. you just cant structure a movement around trying to appeal to natives to "accept" immigrants.
the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.
Tinkzorg posted:
m not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants (...) the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.
so why do you disagree with my assertions? the only way this can be done is through institutionalized affirmative action and property/asset redistributio. unfortunately economic inequality combined with the sort of deep segregation and isolation you see in the West is a very effective means of preventing pocs/immigrants/lesbian filipino furries/whatever from getting enough, ahem, 'political capital' to put these sorts of laws into effect. and if your going to try to convince the people who hold the power that this is a good idea then lol. the only alternative remaining is force.
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:Tinkzorg posted:
m not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants (...) the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.so why do you disagree with my assertions? the only way this can be done is through institutionalized affirmative action and property/asset redistributio. unfortunately economic inequality combined with the sort of deep segregation and isolation you see in the West is a very effective means of preventing pocs/immigrants/lesbian filipino furries/whatever from getting enough, ahem, 'political capital' to put these sorts of laws into effect. and if your going to try to convince the people who hold the power that this is a good idea then lol. the only alternative remaining is force.
shut the fuck up
xipe posted:
this sounds interesting! what are you thinking of doing/saying?
not orthodox marxist either way, I referred to it constantly when i was writing about this stuff in school and it's p good / directly addresses' white leftism' or whatever in a way that i think you could relate to
http://books.google.com/books/about/Black_marxism.html?id=Y30zsnRdFlIC
Edited by EmanuelaBrolandi ()
Tinkzorg posted:EmanuelaOrlandi posted:Tinkzorg posted:
m not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants (...) the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.so why do you disagree with my assertions? the only way this can be done is through institutionalized affirmative action and property/asset redistributio. unfortunately economic inequality combined with the sort of deep segregation and isolation you see in the West is a very effective means of preventing pocs/immigrants/lesbian filipino furries/whatever from getting enough, ahem, 'political capital' to put these sorts of laws into effect. and if your going to try to convince the people who hold the power that this is a good idea then lol. the only alternative remaining is force.
shut the fuck up
he has a point man.
in your head this sounds a lot different than what tim wise is doing but in actuality i don't see any distinction.
aerdil posted:
good, we ain't trotskyists around these parts here boy
sorry to break it to you: but you are a trot. peace.
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
Getting someone to admit their stake is nearly impossible, let alone getting them to try and somehow divest themselves of privilege. People will NOT do this. I am aware of my stake but what do I do? Nothing.
can you explain it to someone that doesn't have it? anyone that doesn't have it
sorry, this is just way too fucking easy. shut up.
can you explain it to someone that doesn't have it? anyone that doesn't have it
I really don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Honestly dm ever since you started that thread about the cia blacksite mormon child prisons I haven't understood like half of your posts. I definitely haven't talked about what to do 'for' people or even about doing anything 'for' people, but then again I don't really understand what u sayin soo...
Tinkzorg posted:
im not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants. you just cant structure a movement around trying to appeal to natives to "accept" immigrants.
the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.
no, this was the kind of answer i was looking for; i was hoping u could expand a bit tho on the space where immigrant and right on native activities can productively overlap to fight such racist structures.
i know this is a detour from what you wanna focus on, but its something ive been wondering about (and it would probs crop up in your irl political project) so i just thought id ask
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:can you explain it to someone that doesn't have it? anyone that doesn't have itI really don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Honestly dm ever since you started that thread about the cia blacksite mormon child prisons I haven't understood like half of your posts. I definitely haven't talked about what to do 'for' people or even about doing anything 'for' people, but then again I don't really understand what u sayin soo...
that's pathetic
dm posted:
how can i make up for it?
AmericanNazbro posted:Tinkzorg posted:EmanuelaOrlandi posted:Tinkzorg posted:
m not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants (...) the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.so why do you disagree with my assertions? the only way this can be done is through institutionalized affirmative action and property/asset redistributio. unfortunately economic inequality combined with the sort of deep segregation and isolation you see in the West is a very effective means of preventing pocs/immigrants/lesbian filipino furries/whatever from getting enough, ahem, 'political capital' to put these sorts of laws into effect. and if your going to try to convince the people who hold the power that this is a good idea then lol. the only alternative remaining is force.
shut the fuck up
he has a point man.
in your head this sounds a lot different than what tim wise is doing but in actuality i don't see any distinction.
no it basically sounds like what hes saying except somehow as the thread went on "minorities have to take action themselves" and "voting once every four years isnt the only thing to do" and "fighting for rights outside of parliamentary context" got interpreted as being categorically without force and merely "convincing" people in power to do whats right. because some people are only reading the posts they imagine they see and not the ones that are there
mistersix posted:AmericanNazbro posted:Tinkzorg posted:EmanuelaOrlandi posted:Tinkzorg posted:
m not going to convince whitey to throw minorities a bone. the white man can think whatever the FUCK he wants (...) the only way for immigrants to earn emancipation is to take it upon themselves to achieve it. like im sorry if this wasnt the answer you were looking for but racism isnt resolved at the level of feelings. those exist but are ultimately secondary. the racist structures are the ones that need to be fought against, and its impossible to fight that fight and have everyone "accept" you.so why do you disagree with my assertions? the only way this can be done is through institutionalized affirmative action and property/asset redistributio. unfortunately economic inequality combined with the sort of deep segregation and isolation you see in the West is a very effective means of preventing pocs/immigrants/lesbian filipino furries/whatever from getting enough, ahem, 'political capital' to put these sorts of laws into effect. and if your going to try to convince the people who hold the power that this is a good idea then lol. the only alternative remaining is force.
shut the fuck up
he has a point man.
in your head this sounds a lot different than what tim wise is doing but in actuality i don't see any distinction.no it basically sounds like what hes saying except somehow as the thread went on "minorities have to take action themselves" and "voting once every four years isnt the only thing to do" and "fighting for rights outside of parliamentary context" got interpreted as being categorically without force and merely "convincing" people in power to do whats right. because some people are only reading the posts they imagine they see and not the ones that are there
thats what i do. its weird that Grilled Cheese of the Day's url is rhizzone.net but you know tis cool, web 2.0
dm posted:
or is it easier to just sit around and debate what you should do for people who don't have it?
sorry, this is just way too fucking easy. shut up.
it's pretty easy yet no one has been able to accomplish it outside of like, a few rare instances
i think in the first world theory becomes a scape goat for inaction due to a lot of reasons, but that still shouldn't ignore the fact that a sound theory is needed before some type of praxis can be enacted, because even though you say "it" is so easy to accomplish no one knows what "it" really is and how to get from point A to what you are imagining in your mind
Edited by AmericanNazbro ()
dm posted:
are people predestined to be white before they're born?
Whiteness is an socio-economic construct.
AmericanNazbro posted:dm posted:
or is it easier to just sit around and debate what you should do for people who don't have it?
sorry, this is just way too fucking easy. shut up.it's pretty easy yet no one has been able to accomplish it outside of like, a few rare instances
i think in the first world theory becomes a scape goat for inaction due to a lot of reasons, but that still doesn't neglect the fact that a sound theory is needed before some type of praxis can be enacted, because even though you say "it" is so easy to accomplish no one knows what "it" really is and how to get from point A to what you are imagining in your mind
"it" is a pronoun and there wasn't any theory or praxis in my post, but that sounds like a good idea imo
granted, there are a lot of leftists and progressives who do want to accomplish a change to the status-quo and not in the obama sense, but a meaningful one of societal emancipation from capital and economic oppression. though, i think a big issues arises here because there is a huge gap of theory and people are confused on where to go and what they, in the first world, should be doing to cause a meaningful change - because no one wants to sacrifice their lives for nothing, forfeiting their life to see nothing come of it.
back in the 19th-20th century there was potential for revolution both in the usa and the west due to an ideological support coming from both an innovative theoretical application of marxism and also a practical application with the post oct 19th revolutions. but now, where do marxists have to look, in whose footsteps do they follow? with the soviet union gone and nothing left but capitalism as a the only light in the night sky, no one wants to traverse out into the wilderness and be the first lonesome man to wander into the darkness where creatures of the night disappear anyone who even thinks such an idea.
it is a brave new world, and i think it will be sound theory of some sort that will be necessary to take us out of the darkness and into the light. but at the same time i have no illusions to the fact that most of the marxist theory that gets thrown about is nothing more than a means of participation without actually Participating.
AmericanNazbro posted:
ya, i kind of figured and i can relate where you are coming from because a lot of theory discussion within the realm of the first world is really just posturing back and forth to feel as though one is contributing to a morally correct cause in the safety of his pajamas, while eating a bowl of cocoa-puffs and the other is obviously the identity politics of it. i don't have a lot of respect for leftists, especially self proclaimed communists because to me it feels like communism, marxism and the ideological notion of revolution is, as thug lessons said "something fun to think about" and absolutely nothing more to a large majority of leftist.
granted, there are a lot of leftists and progressives who do want to accomplish a change to the status-quo and not in the obama sense, but a meaningful one of societal emancipation from capital and economic oppression. though, i think a big issues arises here because there is a huge gap of theory and people are confused on where to go and what they, in the first world, should be doing to cause a meaningful change - because no one wants to sacrifice their lives for nothing, forfeiting their life to see nothing come of it.
back in the 19th-20th century there was potential for revolution both in the usa and the west due to an ideological support coming from both an innovative theoretical application of marxism and also a practical application with the post oct 19th revolutions. but now, where do marxists have to look, in whose footsteps do they follow? with the soviet union gone and nothing left but capitalism as a the only light in the night sky, no one wants to traverse out into the wilderness and be the first lonesome man to wander into the darkness where creatures of the night disappear anyone who even thinks such an idea.
it is a brave new world, and i think it will be sound theory of some sort that will be necessary to take us out of the darkness and into the light. but at the same time i have no illusions to the fact that most of the marxist theory that gets thrown about is nothing more than a means of participation without actually Participating.
this is what i was saying in the other thread but i just sounded dumb and whiny but i am dumb and whiny so w/e
AmericanNazbro posted:
no one wants to sacrifice their lives for nothing, forfeiting their life to see nothing come of it.
god doesnt care how good your theory was though, just whether or not your intent and means were just and righteous
shennong posted:AmericanNazbro posted:
no one wants to sacrifice their lives for nothing, forfeiting their life to see nothing come of it.god doesnt care how good your theory was though, just whether or not your intent and means were just and righteous
lol
I would be surprised if there was anything comparable in Sweden. Not to say immigrant issues aren't important, but I don't see how these are revolutionary issues or broad leftist issues beyond the desperation of the left that thinks all issues combined in some kind of rainbow coalition is the revolution.