#161
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#162
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Danny can kiss my ass
#163
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CLEAT endorsed Greg Abbott. You'd think these goofuses would have the sense to lie and say they had no idea to make it look less fucking embarrassing. Knowing and allowing them to run is far worse.
#164
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if police unions are bad how come they put 'union' in the name huh
#165
Dont Mess With Sucess
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rolaids posted:

CLEAT endorsed Greg Abbott. You'd think these goofuses would have the sense to lie and say they had no idea to make it look less fucking embarrassing. Knowing and allowing them to run is far worse.


at least the organization is named after spikes that attach to the bottom of a boot

#166
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JohnBeige posted:


#167
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Bug report: the button to embed Arnold Schwarzenegger soundboards is missing. Please fix it dr cat.
#168
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Governor Davis recall era politics were the zenith of my being
#169
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#170
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#171
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#172
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#173
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FFFFFFF
ascism
#174
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I told one of the Trots tabling outside that we (the DSA) had left the Socialist International, and she said "about a hundred years too late".
#175
[account deactivated]
#176
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glomper_stomper posted:

so low on the ideological pecking order you're getting owned by trots.

wrap it up DSAilures!



I could do naught but hang my head in shame.

#177
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Several communist caucuses have started up in DSA. Spark ("It's Lit", MacNairite), Communist Caucus (I don't trust them but I don't remember why) and Refoundation (the one I have some hope for).

Edited by platzapS ()

#178
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I felt basically the same as you though idk about Spark or who's involved; Communist Caucus I thought was sketchy because of how devoid of substance their statement was. I may join the Refoundation Caucus to see what's up, they also have two NPC members within their ranks. One of the biggest deficiencies the org has for me is political education so I hope the right people can make a coherent curriculum that every chapter can use. Practically anything would be better than what goes on in the meetings I attend. Additionally their program seemed light on anti-imperialism.
#179
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what does go on in the meetings you attend? what kind of education do they do
#180
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Well my chapter covers somewhat wide geographic area and has meetings in different places across it. As a result there hasn't great continuity in who comes to meetings, even though attendance in general has been good it tends to be newer people. So mostly the educationals are based on like an article or essay on an issue and talking about it and the issue. One was about how abstract and absurd our idea of "markets" is, another one I remember being about Medicare for All, another one a Barbara Ehrenreich reading on socialist feminism. It's never been about like theory or history that wasn't American, in my memory. Evidently anyone can volunteer to do one on a topic of their choosing so long as it gets approved. Certainly some other chapters are better about it and take education in more productive directions, but it's still kind of an open question of like what the org even stands for which I think many find confusing and is definitely bad.

Compared to other chapters I observe online, mine seems pretty dysfunctional atm and I've been working more with some other groups since. I probably will not renew my membership but if I end up moving to an area with a good chapter and no other good orgs I may stay around.
#181
Black Belt
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offer to start an education working group and work that shit like stalin
#182
Black Belt
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looking at refoundation and the communist caucus. both are tiny networks speaking a big game without much of a listed plan for it. still likely gonna register as refoundation but im waiting to see which NPC members are in there because they'll likely have a louder voice inside it and nationals been seemingly fucking up on every question put in front of them since the election. they might also be momentum-linked, who are close to ISO and with Refoundation pushing to strike the dual card clause, theres never been a better time for them to try entryism on a national basis. we'll see.

proread on amateur money handling: https://medium.com/@dsarichmond/statement-on-the-dsa-funds-for-victims-of-terrorism-in-charlottesville-b9f05b6da98c

theres also been a monthslong process in the LA chapter that at this point has people talking about the need to decertify the whole branch (because no one knows how to handle a harasser it seems) before anyone from national even visits to talk to people. bad precedent to set imo but watching national continue to do nothing while also posting about the problem on personal twitter accounts is infuriating

Edited by JohnBeige ()

#183
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Is it just because I am new to leftist organizing and this comes with the territory or is DSA completely devoid of any robust large scale infrastructure, moreso than other orgs? Like what the fuck were all these old Schactmanites doing during the Bush years or before everything exploded? Why is the org incapable of delivering fundraiser money (or if they knew it would be so difficult why did they drive people to donate directly instead of pointing people to established orgs in the first place?), why are there issues with expelling cancerous members? There's cops and harassers but even in our local there was a minor ordeal in expelling a zionist member who was being actively racist on social media, where I guess they could still technically a member at the national level? There was a dues strike over Fetonte but to be honest no one has ever collected them from me--not that the nation sends any material resources to the locals anyways. I'm not too involved in the Political ed work but as mediumpig mentions topics seem to be a hodgepodge and I know a lot of the people running it are swamped with other work or personal commitments. I like the big tent idea but you'd think there'd be some sort of generic line and generic onboarding process the National would have in place from fucking existing for decades. I like my comrades and the hard work our chapter does but it seems like a lot of eager new organizers having to build shit from scratch. I feel like PSL or WWP wouldn't have as much difficulty handling the harassment or monetary issues.
#184
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rolaids posted:

but it seems like a lot of eager new organizers having to build shit from scratch.


i really don't want to be discouraging and pessimistic here but oh wait who am i kidding.

it sounds to me like much of your membership (and not just entry level) is more concerned with the forms of performing a leftist appearance: having a social club where they can talk with like minded people and feel less lonely, maybe get out and soothe their hurt and anger with some direct action, but not focused on the content of actually accomplishing anything lasting.

this doesn't mean an org is full of bad people, and they aren't useless people either, but a part of organizing is assessing who is there to put in work and who is there just to be there (which will change depending on the context!) and when you don't differentiate people start to get responsibilities they don't want or can't handle and they drop the ball. when lots of your membership are primarily there just to be friends they will actively resist the confrontation necessary to do anything about these problems, and this hesitation can travel all the way to the top. in that kind of environment important things like institutional continuity, structure, and accountability will just rot away, what structures do remain will be greedily horded by entrenched cliques too busy protecting and justifying their own position to accomplish anything else.

this is a difficulty in any kind of organizing because we're all imperfect finite people, but it's practically an epidemic in big tent approaches like the DSA and *gag* Occupy. part of the problem is that these big tent organizations want to have everyone and be everything at once, and they can't. you need to have a plan for what your organization is actually for and what you're going to do about it.

that plan can be just to get people together to hang out, talk about leftism and bring in people on the periphery who are new to this kind of thing for some political education, but the discrete apparatus that accomplishes that isn't going to simultaneously be organizing active protection for comrades who have been bodily threatened by nazis and also coordinating legal defense against bullshit arrests and also handling finances and also managing a social media presence. these structures can exist together within one party, they can communicate and work together in harmony, but they can't function as an undifferentiated hodge podge where whoever shows up most winds up de facto responsible for everything. this post is getting away from me and i could probably ramble forever so i'm gonna call it here.

#185
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just to be clear, i admire the work you and your peers are doing, i just sure as heck don't envy the place where you're trying to do it
#186
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Trying to join an org but lurking this webforum isn't helping!

Actually, shriekingviolet's posts are always very insightful about organizations and how they should work, and I'm sure some of them will help me eventually. I just don't want to be one of those people that's just there to hang out and would be detrimental to getting any work done if I were given any responsibility, but it seems likely considering my current inexperience, ignorance, and possible crypto-liberalism.
sorry to only post here on personal thoughts and whatever, next time I post I'll have converted my local DSA to third-worldism I swear it
#187
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oh fuck i have made a bad post

Please Join An Org. don't let me ranting about my obsession with structural problems curtail your own personal horizons. it's ok to join an org just to be another warm body and hang out. it's great even, just having social support networks is really valuable. it's even ok to get overwhelmed with responsibilities you can't handle or took due to social pressure but don't want, it sucks but failure is real and it happens and you can't ever succeed if fear of failure prevents all action. accept failure! all people need to do is be responsible about their political engagement, the same way you should be responsible at a job site or with your family or significant other: if you overextend yourself, if you fuck up, if you can't accept a decision, be honest. say that somethings wrong, say you can't do it, didn't do it, say what stopped you. explain the problem.

if you join an org and fuck up and take responsibility, even if that means you leave afterwards, it will still be more productive than someone who refuses to admit, to themselves or others, that something has gone wrong and doubles down on their mistakes or tries to hide them and thereby multiplies the difficulty.

if you're gonna play ball, you're gonna drop the ball: what actually matters is what happens next
#188
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Don't worry, your post didn't discourage me at all. On the contrary, it makes me want to take political participation more seriously and do my best to avoid those common pitfalls. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
#189
Black Belt
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rolaids posted:

I like my comrades and the hard work our chapter does but it seems like a lot of eager new organizers having to build shit from scratch. I feel like PSL or WWP wouldn't have as much difficulty handling the harassment or monetary issues.



i feel you here but as prikyl pointed out years ago the LA branch disappeared a bunch of money that was due for soldiers in order to cover their office costs and Sac covered up a rapist until he left of his own accord. so while its true that dsa is having to build new infrastructure to handle these sorts of things, the fact that its far more transparent and people are more willing to complain online means national is forced to either be more responsive or get kicked while the individuals posting about it are more protected from repercussion.

im 100% for someone introducing instant recall procedures and striking dual-card language at the next congress. maybe we can try an anti-dem endorsement proposal again as well.

#190
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Here's a 4-session socialist school being put on by East Bay, what do you all think. You can click on each of the dates to see what the required and suggested readings are. From what I can see there's no Marx, Lenin, or Mao, though it's never occurred to me if using their primary texts was necessarily the best way to teach things to people (nor am I well read).

edit: link

Edited by mediumpig ()

#191
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Nice I left out the link there thanks Belphegor: http://www.eastbaydsa.org/resources-readings-socialist-school
#192
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well let's look at the reading- mandel? *clicks away*
#193
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(5 minutes, easy) is the new catchphrase
#194
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The (prerenegade) Kautskyist/MacNairite Spark Caucus dissolved to merge with the larger Refoundation, in order to surf the crest of the tide of History.

But an honest look at the existing world has led us to converge on practical conclusions. We don’t need to agree on the precise nature of the USSR, for instance, to see that the Democrats are not a viable path to socialism.

Edited by platzapS ()

#195
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lmfao. theres a dsa communist caucus and i am semi ironically close to founding a dsa third worldist caucus
#196
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So I went to a DSA movie night and they played "The Motorcycle Diaries". Somehow the discussion afterwards went to North Korea and it was pure State Department talking points.

"(The DPRK) doesn't even have a word for 'democracy'...or at least they mean something different than we do."

"400 families control the country by propaganda and dominating institutions"

"They worship the Kims like gods"

Very disappointing, especially for people who seemed down with Cuba.
#197
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well, they probably do mean something different when they say democracy
#198
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I'm not trying to like, ~uphold~ North Korea (I dunno, I can't even read Korean), just fascinated that people who see through other propaganda are buying anti-DPRK stuff wholesale. Like as a badge of seriousness.

At least everyone agreed war with Korea would be stupid.
#199
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DSA sounds extremely white.
#200
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The democratic people's republic of Korea doesn't have a word for democracy...interesting