#1081

blinkandwheeze posted:

the opposite is the case, the fascists in these subcultures come with the biggest concessions to classical musical conventions. neofolk & martial industrial are both painfully saccharine & sentimental in terms of melodic / rhythmic sensibility. the aesthetic culture of fascism is insanely cloying and kitsch, full of vulgar humanism & appeals to the Volk



while this phenomenon certainly exists, there are still a number of fascists attracted to stuff like noise, black metal, industrial, etc -- for a historic example, i cant think of a better example than the Italian Futurists, most of whom later became Mussolini supporters (at least the ones that survived WWI)

seems that both groups (ie, the Wagner and Burzum fans) are just different forms of the same underlying phenomenon: a thorough-going anti-Rationalism, a rejection of both the utilitarian logic of technocratic liberalism and the dialectic logic of Marxism in favor of a Romantic notion of both society and self that can simultaneously look at past and future with the misty glasses of second-rate poets and sentimentalists

from a musical standpoint, many have commented that the music that white supremacists are attracted tend to be totally devoid of African-American influence -- nothing with tinges of blues, essentially. what's interesting to me is how that's manifested itself in practical terms for a lot of their rock and metal. the exclusion the blues is so strong that most of this music doesn't even have anything resembling a V-I cadence -- something that's definitely not unique to Afro-American music at all (i mean, it's been the cornerstone of tonality in Western classical music for hundreds of years), but most rock musicians learn tend to learn it through it blues-inspired acts. that means that a lot of metal, from Metallica on through black metal, sounds closer to Gregorian chants played with distortion. structurally, it's several step backwards from the legacy of Beethoven or Wagner that these guys claim to be the heir to

#1082
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#1083

drwhat posted:

Petrol posted:


theres some good noise out there but neofolk & martial is exclusively fash



the further you get away from recognizable identification of a human playing an instrument (or singing) or some kind of human organization of sound (melody and rhythm e.g.), the more towards noise, the more i think you get more and more inherently anti-human / fascist, but that's just like, my opinion, man


thats a fairly uninformed opinion

#1084
i think rather than looking at some sort of 'this music has x quality which isnt black and thats why fascists like it' its probably better to be looking at the social context of the music. most of the musical subcultures with a heavy nazi presence are oppositional ones(e.g. punk, black metal, industrial) that position themselves as opposed to mainstream culture and society, and the appeal of that to nazis should be fairly obvious. this is also heavily based upon scene, which depends upon the social and economic context and general political landscape - in some european noise scenes for instance, probably all the major players are at least right wing in some way, but that is mostly unheard of in the japanese noise scene.
#1085
"Scary" noise by guys who like leather and horror movies and violence against women and the color black is reactionary/fascist (and bad), psychedelic noise by guys with art school degrees who like drugs and cartoons and rainbow color knit blankets is liberal

There's also a highbrow/educated noise axis between guys with laptops and $10000 of top shelf equipment playing to a room of adults sitting down vs teens on mushrooms playing broken keyboards in a basement, you can probably figure out where the politics angle fits in (answer: All of them have trust funds and rich parents and thus are bad)
#1086
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#1087
i like music
#1088
Afaik fascists nowadays want to be one of a small group of cartoon Japanese pre teen girls performing synchronized dance moves to songs about friends and hearts and shit which makes it hard to come to Complex conclusions about their opinions on women, gay, etc
#1089
oh yeah i'm not saying industrial music cultures are free of fascist / reactionary presence but like lo said it's more of a coin flip. Whereas when the people in these scenes who start appealing to pre-blues melodic traditions there is a roughly 100% likelihood of them being a holocaust denier
#1090
is japanese dubstep fascist?, asking for a friend
#1091
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#1092


#1093
lots of nazis or nazis enablers in the black metal scene especially in europe. something like grindcore is generally left wing (usually of the anarchist variety) but ya still see a decent amount of the standard rock n roll misogyny around.

it is what it is. if i only listened to music that agreed with my politics id just be listening to the ussr anthem all day
#1094
what the fuck is neo-folk. is this neo-folk
#1095
*leaps screaming into the chicken coop*

NAZI PUNKS CLUCK OFF
#1096

tears posted:

i like music


same

#1097

cars posted:

Afaik fascists nowadays want to be one of a small group of cartoon Japanese pre teen girls performing synchronized dance moves to songs about friends and hearts and shit which makes it hard to come to Complex conclusions about their opinions on women, gay, etc


this is almost certainly true for the majority of fascists, i think maybe people who focus a lot on politics in fringe music scenes lose sight of the fact that most fascists, just like most people, don't like listening to noise even if it agrees with their politics.

#1098
*ghost of emanulelabrolandi wafts in from far away* what about the first skrewdriver album?
#1099

lo posted:

i think rather than looking at some sort of 'this music has x quality which isnt black and thats why fascists like it' its probably better to be looking at the social context of the music.



i'd add that krautrock, probably the most explicitly anti-fascist music, also eschews blues not because it was black, but because the english and american pop music invading germany used that structure. i dont think looking for fascism in culture is very useful. you could easily argue that hesse and steppenwolf in particular are proto-fascist, and youd be wrong.

#1100
i have never listened to the band steppenwolf, but i know it exists.
#1101

kinch posted:

lo posted:


i think rather than looking at some sort of 'this music has x quality which isnt black and thats why fascists like it' its probably better to be looking at the social context of the music.



i'd add that krautrock, probably the most explicitly anti-fascist music, also eschews blues not because it was black, but because the english and american pop music invading germany used that structure. i dont think looking for fascism in culture is very useful. you could easily argue that hesse and steppenwolf in particular are proto-fascist, and youd be wrong.


theres a few krautrock type groups that were jazzy or funky so im not too sure that it eschews the blues to be honest but im just nitpicking here rather than disagreeing with your overall point

#1102
amon düül or the rest of the heavier end of kraut never struck me as any less bluesy than their english / american counterparts
#1103

glomper_stomper posted:

no, but anime is


#1104


i was obsessed with krautrock for a while. listened to faust more than was healthy.
#1105
this is now the music thread
#1106
any subculture that primarily appeals to socially maladapted young men is going to produce a sub-subculture of nazis. i would say they have to be white too but 4chan is full of guys claiming that their brazillian ancestry makes them Actually White
#1107
goldenliontamarin on this topic

https://thebaffler.com/latest/new-atheisms-idiot-heirs-nichols?utm_content=buffer2b8ee&utm;_medium=social&utm;_source=twitter.com&utm;_campaign=buffer
#1108
#1109
that reads like it was written by donald trump

e: well, spoken by him
#1110
thats because it was
#1111

Belphegor posted:

that reads like it was written by donald trump

e: well, spoken by him


its cool how identifiable his cadence and speech patterns are

#1112
thats a cool pig
#1113
the thing about pelosi saying "wouldnt it be great if romney was president now" is the same thing as one of the "Pod Save America" douches saying "oh. my. god. the republican party is LITERALLY supporting a congressional candidate who thinks homosexuality should be illegal" and Vogue or some bullshit saying "trump is the worst president for LGBTs of all time." it's not even ignorance, it's a pathological need to immediately retcon and normalize because if they were able to engage in any systemic critique no matter how meager they wouldn't be liberals.

Edited by le_nelson_mandela_face ()

#1114
#1115
the policy slash loss of life sense
#1116
The policy bad... The loss of life bad... But the Republic.... It now weeps.
#1117
donald trump was the most qualified presidential candidate in history
#1118
to the Republic
#1119
[account deactivated]
#1120

toyotathon posted: