#1841
Post rating: +

toyotathon posted:

that same summer, my roommate and i were trying to get our apt deposits back and, to remove a stain, tried to scrub it out with a very acidic drain cleaner, which in a miscommunication we followed with bleach.



c u in the hague

#1842
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
Eliot "Brown Moses" Higgans gets a lot of shit here but he is not afraid to engage with Johnny six six Sixty Nine about the issues
#1843
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
i wonder if I can find a screenshot from ancient D&D where he de;ivered some Wikipedia facts to me, Daddy Holes
#1844
Post rating: ~
brown moses: saving lives
#1845
Post rating: +
they stole the intro i was making for the rhizzone podcast guys https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebelsradio
#1846
Post rating: +

Themselves posted:

they stole the intro i was making for the rhizzone podcast guys https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebelsradio


this is pretty good esp as an accessible introduction to the problem but they really should have gone for something other than "idlibs" because it just... doesn't work guys. sorry.

#1847
Post rating: +++++
me, october:

Constantignoble posted:

blumenthal, ben norton & rania khalek have a history of smearing anti-imperialists

...

it's suspicious that nobody's been able to find instances of them repudiating their past amplification of imperialist narratives



Rania, on the war nerd:

The US knowingly armed a bunch of extremist sectarian groups that are, really, genocidal in their outlook, and the people who suffered probably the most because of it are minority groups. It would be like if America's adversaries armed the KKK and a bunch of drug cartels to overthrow the US government, and then you had the KKK come and invade brooklyn and just start killing minorities, and that's what happened in Syria.

…

I used to have a different position on Syria, and I bought into a lot of the propaganda that we were getting here, and I was like, "oh, there's a revolution!" But then, once it started affecting my own family, I started to see it much, much differently. And it's not just minorities that have been attacked by these people — it's pretty much anyone who doesn't subscribe to their ideology or doesn't follow their rules in the areas they control. They're constantly shelling civilian areas. They've kidnapped and ransomed people just for being Christian — in some cases, I have Christian friends who don't even know what happened to their families because they couldn't afford to pay the ransoms. There's Abab-Americans I know in this country who don't even speak out on Syria, because even if you're Syrian, you get attacked, because the opposition, their propaganda arm — their lobby arm, I guess — is so strong. There's Arab-Americans in this country whose relatives were kidnapped and ransomed, and they had to get in touch with the State Department, because it was by groups the State Department was supporting.





Blumenthal, Norton:



The tragedy that Syria has seen since 2011 is one of the worst crises in this century. More than half of Syria's population has been displaced, hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom were civilians, have been killed, and yet for the most part Western corporate media outlets and politicians have laid the blame solely on US enemies — the Syrian government, Iran, and Russia — absolving the US and its proxies of any complicity in prolonging this horrific, bloody war for so long.

In this episode we go into great detail as to how the billion-dollar CIA program arming and training rebels in Syria, which is one of the largest covert operations in the history of the agency, greatly strengthened extremist groups — namely ISIS and Al Qaeda — who have genocidal inclinations and have carried out attack after attack on civilians not just in Syria but in many other parts of the world.

There has been so much propaganda on the war in Syria. In fact, there have been more lies and distortions in the reporting and discussion of this war than in any other conflict I've ever seen. So this episode is also personally important for me, because in the early years of the war in Syria, I myself was very mistaken about the conflict. There were many things I didn't really understand correctly, and I had a really misleading, cartoonish view of the Syrian opposition and the Syrian government and its allies — an incredibly widespread, yet grossly distorted view of the conflict, one that that is largely the product of mountains and mountains of propaganda that has been expertly cultivated by the US government, Gulf regimes, and exiled opposition figures. So in this episode, we dive deep, compiling the evidence that led my views to evolve, that demonstrates that many of the talking points used by Western supporters of the opposition — talking points I myself once believed — are simply false, or at best only show part of the picture, and that also shows conclusively that the US knowingly empowered extremist groups in Syria, just as it did in the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s, and how not just Syrians — who have already horrifically suffered for much too long — but the entire world, will have to live for decades to come with the dire consequences of this war.



me, today:

me, today posted:

happy to eat my words!

#1848
Post rating: +
lmao oops i fell for it guys

the exact same thing definitely wont happen again in less than a year
#1849
Post rating: +


ignore this guy's commentary, that's the leader of the Syrian Resistance (the M-L group fighting with the Syrian govt). anyone know what this SDF delegation to Latakia is about?
#1850
Post rating: +
war nerd did another good syria episode with elijah magnier of https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/ (most articles are english). speculation about russia's interests in the middle east, defense of john kerry's diplomatic efforts, and more! http://www.mediafire.com/file/43ednb1zw8nxp34/Radio+War+Nerd+Podcast+88+-+Iraq+%26+Syria+Wars%2C+with+Elijah+Magnier+-+Jun+13+2017.mp3

i mostly remember it for its account of the 2015 shoot-down of a russian jet that incurred on turkish airspace for a matter of seconds, meaning that turkey had previous nato (meaning american) approval to fire on russian aircraft. Turkey's subsequent pivot towards russia was possibly the most incredible thing to come out of this war, when they seemed on the brink of dragging nato into a third world war. anyway, this guy seems to know what he's talking about.

Edited by kinch ()

#1851
Post rating: +
This 2005 article by Charles krauthammer where he coined the term Arab Spring is a real trip.

http://www.hoover.org/research/arab-spring

A tasty appetizer for investigating what a sleazeball next-gen neocon Michael Weiss is

http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/michael-weiss-anti-muslim-rally-pamela-geller
#1852
Post rating: +
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1AX1RI

Washington's main Syrian ally in the fight against Islamic State says the U.S. military will remain in northern Syria long after the jihadists are defeated, predicting enduring ties with the Kurdish-dominated region.

The U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), an alliance of militias dominated by the Kurdish YPG, believes the United States has a "strategic interest" in staying on, SDF spokesman Talal Silo told Reuters.

"They have a strategy policy for decades to come. There will be military, economic and political agreements in the long term between the leadership of the northern areas (of Syria) ... and the U.S. administration," Silo said.

The U.S.-led coalition against Islamic State has deployed forces at several locations in northern Syria, including an airbase near the town of Kobani. It has supported the SDF with air strikes, artillery, and special forces on the ground.


"They (recently) referred to the possibility of securing an area to prepare for a military airport. These are the beginnings - they're not giving support just to leave. America is not providing all this support for free," Silo said.

He suggested northern Syria could become a new base for U.S. forces in the region. "Maybe there could be an alternative to their base in Turkey," he added, referring to the Incirlik air base.

The head of the YPG said last month the United States had established seven military bases in areas of northern Syria controlled by the YPG or SDF, including a major air base near Kobani, a town at the border with Turkey.

The coalition says it does not discuss the location of its forces, citing operational security.

Reuters reporters have seen Blackhawk and Apache military helicopters taking off from a cement factory southeast of Kobani, a Kurdish town on the border with Turkey.



oh good

#1853
Black Belt
Post rating: ~
WTB Kurdish-American occupation comedy
#1854
Post rating: +
"He suggested northern Syria could become a new base for U.S. forces in the region. "Maybe there could be an alternative to their base in Turkey," he added, referring to the Incirlik air base."

turkey joining the russia axis would be quite the plot twist
#1855
Post rating: ~
http://pflp.ps/english/2017/08/17/pflp-salutes-the-martyr-comrade-nubar-ozanyan-of-tkpml/

:thinking:
#1856
Post rating: ~
if the us did pull out, is there any chance the kurds wouldnt be annihilated? i'm conflicted.
#1857
Post rating: +
Just an interesting tidbit about a Turkish religious organisation working in Syria - something like an NGO except it's openly govt-run http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/08/syria-operation-euphrates-shield-aleppo-turkey-mosques.html
#1858
Post rating: +
https://syria360.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/turkey-to-launch-operation-euphrates-shield-ii-in-september/

After airstrikes Turkish troops will enter the northern part of the Idlib province to establish a de-escalation zone. Turkey will coordinate its activities with Russia and Iran. Russia will exchange intelligence and keep the air space open for unmanned aerial vehicles’ flights.

Russia and Iran will operate in the southern part of Idlib while Turkish forces will be advancing from the north. In June, Russia and Turkey announced the plans to set up a jointly controlled de-escalation zone in the province. Russian military police units have demonstrated their effectiveness as peacekeepers in other regions of Syria. They are ready to join with Turkish military establishing and safeguarding a zone in the northern part of Idlib after jihadist formations are routed there.



Ankara is also coordinating activities with Tehran. Last month, a senior Turkish delegation from the National Intelligence Organization (M.I.T.), the Turkish Armed Forces (T.S.K.) and the Foreign Ministry met Iranian and Russian officials in Tehran to discuss latest developments in Idlib and Aleppo, particularly in the district of Afrin. This month, a high-level Iranian military delegation visited Ankara to discuss further steps in Syria. According to Daily Sabah, a Turkish pro-government outlet, a Turkish diplomat said that the Turkish and Iranian military chiefs «shook hands on a joint de-escalation zone mechanism in Idlib, which would also include the Russian military».



A successful military operation in Idlib conducted by Turkey – a NATO member supported by Russia – will by and large put an end to large-scale combat operations in Syria to make the de-escalation zones strategy finally win. There is no doubt that the remnants of Islamic State group still trying to hold ground in Deir ez Zor are doomed to be eliminated soon. The issue of Syria’s future will come to the fore, with President Assad still in power and Russia, Turkey and Iran trio to play the key role in any international effort aimed at peace settlement.


#1859
Post rating: +


that extremely good shit
#1860
[account deactivated]
#1861
Post rating: ~

xipe posted:

Syrian army reports an isis chemical weapons Depo hit by American bombs in deir ex zor



whatever happened to this anyway

#1862
Post rating: ~
an update wrt to the last thing i posted, it seems russia's creating another "safe zone" between the syrian govt/SDF and the turkish "safe zone". i was worried it seemed like the russians were giving into turkey



edit: if this is slightly confusing, the part in purple is formerly SDF controlled territory that's going to be jointly controlled by them and the russians

Edited by marlax78 ()

#1863
Post rating: +

Panopticon posted:

xipe posted:

Syrian army reports an isis chemical weapons Depo hit by American bombs in deir ex zor

whatever happened to this anyway



I haven't really been following but Isis Al-Qaeda Rebels have had access to chemical weapons since 2012 or earlier, and have been using them against Syrian Kurdish and Iraqi forces fairly regularly with little fanfare.

I compiled every link to chemical weapons in Syria I could find back in early April but gave up on it once trump bombed the Country... I could find and post the sources here if you want

#1864
[account deactivated]
#1865
Post rating: ~
this thread stresses me out so much. good work
#1866
Post rating: ~

xipe posted:

Panopticon posted:

xipe posted:

Syrian army reports an isis chemical weapons Depo hit by American bombs in deir ex zor

whatever happened to this anyway

I haven't really been following but Isis Al-Qaeda Rebels have had access to chemical weapons since 2012 or earlier, and have been using them against Syrian Kurdish and Iraqi forces fairly regularly with little fanfare.

I compiled every link to chemical weapons in Syria I could find back in early April but gave up on it once trump bombed the Country... I could find and post the sources here if you want



This is a rough draft from early April (Lots more info found since then) if it's why help

http://bl.ocks.org/anonymous/raw/fe8da3648ccca79abcb47e6bb22e0017/

#1867
Post rating: +
something to lighten the mood a little
#1868
Post rating: ~


who gets to the oil first?
#1869
Post rating: +
#1870
Online
Post rating: +
walks up to partisangirl
yeah im the op of the hands off syria thread on the zzone..
#1871
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +
Sounds fishy http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/the-pentagon-s-2-2-billion-soviet-arms-pipeline-flooding-syria-09-12-2017
edit: images withdrawn thanks to marlax ruiner of fun
http://i63.tinypic.com/2z3z8nd.png
http://i66.tinypic.com/2ds3fx1.png

Edited by swampman ()

#1872
Post rating: ~
tbf the black part of the map you posted is mainly iraq, so i'm guessing the author of the article would refer to daesh controlled syria as "eastern syria" and not "south eastern syria"
#1873
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

kamelred posted:

lmao oops i fell for it guys

the exact same thing definitely wont happen again in less than a year



this is such a bad response to people owning up to being wrong before while making efforts to correct themselves

#1874
Post rating: ~

cars posted:

kamelred posted:

lmao oops i fell for it guys

the exact same thing definitely wont happen again in less than a year

this is such a bad response to people owning up to being wrong before while making efforts to correct themselves



well i guess we'll find out in a year~

#1875
Post rating: ~
could you maybe wait until the exact same situation crops up again, as it always has and inevitable will, to see whether the Twitter Person Gets It. pls dont tell me its bad optics to do otherwise
#1876
Deus Ex Machinist
Post rating: ~
the ISIS convoy finally reached. moviefy this

An Islamic State convoy stuck in the middle of the Syrian desert for more than two weeks because of American airstrikes finally reached eastern Syria late Wednesday night. The reports said that the remnants of the convoy, which originally carried 600 Islamic State fighters and their family members, had reached Mayadin in eastern Deir al-Zour Province, near the border with Iraq.

The convoy, originally consisting of 17 vehicles — buses and ambulances — and escorts from the Lebanese Hezbollah militia group, had been stuck near Sukhna, on the main highway from Damascus to the city of Deir al-Zour, where the Syrian Army claimed it ended a blockade by the Islamic State last week. The convoy was whittled down to 11 vehicles when six returned to Syrian government territory in western Syria, coalition officials said.

In a deal brokered by Hezbollah, the Islamic State militants and their families had been allowed to leave an area on the Lebanese-Syrian border in exchange for turning over the bodies of Lebanese soldiers and Hezbollah militants, as well as an Iranian officer of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. They were promised free passage to the town of Abu Kamal, in the southern part of Deir al-Zour Province.

According to the antigovernment sources monitored in Damascus, the convoy had been reduced to about 200 fighters, plus family members; others had sneaked away.

#1877
Post rating: +

NYT posted:

ISIS Convoy Reportedly Crosses Syria, at Russia’s Request


Constantignoble posted:

Washington Post posted:

Trump ends covert CIA program to arm anti-Assad rebels in Syria, a move sought by Moscow




"misleading Russia tack-on" is my new favorite genre of headline

also, you missed the best part IMO

In a deal brokered by Hezbollah, the Islamic State militants and their families had been allowed to leave an area on the Lebanese-Syrian border in exchange for turning over the bodies of Lebanese soldiers and Hezbollah militants, as well as an Iranian officer of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. They were promised free passage to the town of Abu Kamal, in the southern part of Deir al-Zour Province.

But the American-led coalition bombed the highway to prevent the convoy from advancing and carried out airstrikes against Islamic State units said to be coming to the convoy’s aid, but did not strike the convoy itself because of the presence of women and children.



"we don't bomb women and children; we're better than that. we renege on a deal, strand them in the desert, and chase away those coming to their aid until they succumb to dehydration and despair"

#1878
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

kamelred posted:

could you maybe wait until the exact same situation crops up again, as it always has and inevitable will, to see whether the Twitter Person Gets It. pls dont tell me its bad optics to do otherwise



#1879
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
btw i didn't say it's bad optics. i said it's bad
#1880
Post rating: +
who cares? she never actually admitted to being wrong. listen to the podcast. what she actually cops to is being "tricked" (*deep breath* by buuuuusinesssss), which might sound familiar as its verbatim the flimsy mea culpa coughed up by every liberal ten years deep into the Forever War and long past the point where it was obvious that the iraq war was what it was.

i dont know what she's said elsewhere but if you listen to the podcast her line on this doesn't even approach introspection. her specific commitment was to gather better facts, be a better journalist, be more rational, etc. and not get fooled, mislead, bamboozled, conned, whatever but if you look carefully none of this involves any kind of real shift in thinking. in fact what she specifically said was that, since she was personally affected, she sees thigns differently, which is already a bad sign but as the discussion continues its pretty obvious that none of them have anything like a critique of imperialism in mind. they're pretty explicit about this: sure, assad is an """""""""""""authoritarian""""""""""" and sure, he should definitely be ousted and executed or whatever, just not by us.

i mean i recognize that the stakes here couldn't possibly be lower, but to the extent that its even capable of mattering, why does this reversal earn a pat on the head or whatever when the origin of her wrong-ness, i.e., her class position and lifestyle, isn't never even mentioned? she doesn't say "oh weird i guess my whole way of life is dependent on a vicious pattern of destruction and exploitation that has burned away all semblance of justice and any hope for a future throughout nearly the entire planet and i should keep that in mind when i think about the conflicts that result from this system", she says "derp i was tricked. silly me. i reasoned correctly but from bad premises. fortunately this almost never happens twice..."

just once it would be nice to have a visible figure in the left find a way to object to this shit before its already an obvious horror show