discipline posted:
it's not natural to live this way yall
What is a natural way to live? Throwing torches at straw huts? Firing cannons at byzantine walls? Getting your mosque raided by commandos? Getting your wedding bombed? Maybe just painting cave walls
noavbazzer posted:
i stand by my earlier statement that tom almost had me abandon. modern marxists should only concern themselves with books and words as neurotic pedantry is a task they are best suited to.
Lmao you are so weak. If ya scared go to church.
Solved, now we can get around to asking serious questions for humanity like why and how does the Universe exist.
Crow posted:discipline posted:
it's not natural to live this way yallWhat is a natural way to live? Throwing torches at straw huts? Firing cannons at byzantine walls? Getting your mosque raided by commandos? Getting your wedding bombed? Maybe just painting cave walls
noavbazzer posted:
i stand by my earlier statement that tom almost had me abandon. modern marxists should only concern themselves with books and words as neurotic pedantry is a task they are best suited to.
Lmao you are so weak. If ya scared go to church.
must have hit a nerve there whitebread
You think I'm gonna forget your kreayshawn avatar, cracker? You think I'm gonna forgive you for it? Out of my sight
cleanhands posted:babyfinland posted:
marxism as concrete political movement represents no threat to capitalism, and doesnt even approach the contradictions in capitalism. just saying. running around declaring heresy on people for believing in god or not being of this or that specific political nomination is so funny especially when the dogma you are defending is such a non-starterim not sure what 'marxism as concrete political movement' is, please provide me with a selection of google-friendly key words that i can use to edumacate mein self
like the bolsheviks or even something like black panthers
Crow posted:
Obviously no one is talking about abandoning knowledge, but you really shouldn't be wasting time in regards to political preparations. Decide where you're going to intervene, really decide, and start working towards it. Theory is useless without practice, it is certain. Only harmless idiots are talking about 'abandoning' anything, they'll remain harmless if you ignore them
i'd just like it to be clear that i have never advocated "abandoning" anything, despite what people constantly accuse me of. i explicitly said that marxism is a vital science
jools posted:okay to return to beating a dead horse, bhpn i think it would make everyone a lot happier and reduce the general Fart Levels of this thread if you could explain just how understanding rent better would make you a better revolutionary or whatever. like, use a hypothetical or a historical example (I Can Already Think of one !!!!), don't just hose us down with thick 'n' chunky sub-RCP rhetoric again
babyfinland posted:cleanhands posted:babyfinland posted:
marxism as concrete political movement represents no threat to capitalism, and doesnt even approach the contradictions in capitalism. just saying. running around declaring heresy on people for believing in god or not being of this or that specific political nomination is so funny especially when the dogma you are defending is such a non-starterim not sure what 'marxism as concrete political movement' is, please provide me with a selection of google-friendly key words that i can use to edumacate mein self
like the bolsheviks or even something like black panthers
Why, because they didn't succeed? I don't think you'll ever find any one that succeeds wholly, I don't think that's how a site of resistance works
Crow posted:babyfinland posted:cleanhands posted:babyfinland posted:
marxism as concrete political movement represents no threat to capitalism, and doesnt even approach the contradictions in capitalism. just saying. running around declaring heresy on people for believing in god or not being of this or that specific political nomination is so funny especially when the dogma you are defending is such a non-starterim not sure what 'marxism as concrete political movement' is, please provide me with a selection of google-friendly key words that i can use to edumacate mein self
like the bolsheviks or even something like black panthers
Why, because they didn't succeed? I don't think you'll ever find any one that succeeds wholly, I don't think that's how a site of resistance works
because they are not presently active
Lessons posted:
the bolsheviks and the russian social democratic movement more broadly were basically a non-entity until the february revolution fwiw, and didn't present any more threat to the tsarist state than something like occupy/decolonize does today. like i hear you echoing that finkelstein interview all through this bf but he has a very specific criticism of dishonesty in a specific movement. you're just sort of co-opting the language, (as well as the outrage), against a sort of politics you're tired of.
maybe so, but im not simply parroting finkelstein if thats the case, just finding a way to articulate myself via his language. also i'm not expressing any outrage, i'm trying to calmly explain myself to shrieking communist torquemadas
Lessons posted:
then why not just call baby huey and me shrieking communist torquemadas rather than all this grandstanding about the death of the left?
well im not grandstanding about the death of the left, and im not going to engage in childishness
babyfinland posted:Lessons posted:then why not just call baby huey and me shrieking communist torquemadas rather than all this grandstanding about the death of the left?
well im not grandstanding about the death of the left, and im not going to engage in childishness
babyfinland posted:
maybe so, but im not simply parroting finkelstein if thats the case, just finding a way to articulate myself via his language. also i'm not expressing any outrage, i'm trying to calmly explain myself to shrieking communist torquemadas
noavbazzer posted:
The fact that marxists can call religion a poison or irrational or whatever as part of their ideology just proves how completely irrelevant they are to the oppressed masses they want to liberate.
oh is that the fact lol
jools posted:
I guess that was the case in 1917.... the godless and atheistic russian peasantry and proletariat....
who proceeded to colonize and enslave the muslims in the russian territories on the basis that they distrusted their religious beliefs and therefore needed european leadership
jools posted:
enslave in the literal sense or the, i guess, balkan sense
i donno you tell me what forcing schoolchildren out into cotton fields should be classified as
babyfinland posted:jools posted:enslave in the literal sense or the, i guess, balkan sense
i donno you tell me what forcing schoolchildren out into cotton fields should be classified as
a field trip???
noavbazzer posted:
The fact that marxists can call religion a poison or irrational or whatever as part of their ideology just proves how completely irrelevant they are to the oppressed masses they want to liberate.
how can someone who can't even imagine at a basic level what genuine material organizing in your own home would look like, that is anything beyond reading a bunch of books or whatever you're proposing, possibly decry anyone else as being irrelevant to the oppressed masses?
noavbazzer posted:
Im not talking about the bolsheviks who were both admirable and capable men im talking about the ridiculous adherence of disastisfied self styled revolutionaries to marxism as some sort of ethos which will enable them pretend that they can build a lasting and equitable society and be important.
what does this have to do with marxism. great, you realize that adherence to truth can be corrupted for personal, selfish reasons, but this 'fact' is not built into truth, it is built into contingency.
talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
babyfinland posted:jools posted:
enslave in the literal sense or the, i guess, balkan sensei donno you tell me what forcing schoolchildren out into cotton fields should be classified as
Existing patterns of child labour in Uzbekistan were explained by the Ministry with reference to ‘recognized family values and traditions of Uzbek society’ which ‘assume and predetermine [the] participation of elder children in creating family well-being’. In brief, the Ministry placed the economic contribution of minors in the category of child work, distinguishing it from child labour. The statement concluded that after post-Soviet reforms and the privatization of agriculture in Uzbekistan there were no social or economic grounds for the use of forced child labour in agricultural work, including cotton-harvesting operations.
...
Unlike the Soviet period, there is no sanitary provision such as hot water and hygiene tents for girls. Children working at the cotton harvest used to be provided with nutritious food, including butter and a hot meal with meat.
http://www.soas.ac.uk/cccac/events/cotton-sector-in-central-asia-2005/file49842.pdf
From the Soros foundation, friend of Soviet peoples:
The use of forced child labor in the harvesting of cotton in Uzbekistan began in the Stalin era when the country was part of the Soviet Union.
hmm wonder what also began in the stalin era, world war fweakin two?
noavbazzer posted:
Marxism is useful for understanding how capitalism functions but predicating your.revolutionary action or for some pretense of revolutionary action on the system that basically runs the world being consumed in the flames during which time you can finally apply your ethos to the place in which you live is a little delusional. There is no historical inevitability and capitalism has continually proved more robust than you give it credit for.
okay so who is that presupposing this exactly?? who are you even talking to? the phantom of your old self? who's not giving credit? am i reading Bright Lights, Big City?
babyfinland posted:
lol defending/denying children's forced labor because it was under the administrative graces of the great CCCP, youre disgusting
i just dont trust your CIA traitor bloodline, speaking authoritatively on things you do not know
The reliance of the Soviet command economy in
Uzbekistan on ‘cotton campaigns’ that mobilized the
population, including school-age children, during
harvest periods is well documented. An integrated
network of institutions, from regional and local
administrations, to schools and collective farms were
involved in securing additional labour at peak times. At
first glance the use of child labour in cotton harvests,
relying on an existing infrastructure of institutions, may
appear as a carry-over from collective agriculture.
However, the evidence points to significant changes
in both the context and the mechanisms of reliance
on child labour in the aftermath of agrarian reforms
starting after the break-up of the Soviet Union and
Uzbekistan’s independence in 1991.
this is the next page after you quoted the ex-soviet ministries stupid nationalist propaganda -- which they picked up from their soviet training as colonial administrators
this paper is largely irrelevant since it looks at post-soviet uzbekistan, i'm not sure why you're posting it unless its jsut the first thing that you googled up.