#361
Post rating: +
Shit like this is extremely revealing and interesting but for I feel like the image format and red lines turn people off and make it easy to conflate with right-wing crackpot conspiracy (be they valid or not). Put the same info in a nice clean article and you basically have The Intercept, which people eat up.
#362
Post rating: +

tears posted:

petrol-kun can you please update your OP with the klaus theweleit stuff which i didn't know was buried in the middle of thread, otsukaresama desu


finally did this because i am procrastinating hard with an assignment due in a few days haha kill me

#363
Post rating: ~

Petrol posted:

tears posted:

petrol-kun can you please update your OP with the klaus theweleit stuff which i didn't know was buried in the middle of thread, otsukaresama desu

finally did this because i am procrastinating hard with an assignment due in a few days haha kill me


thank you, and i will not

#364
Post rating: +

mediumpig posted:

Shit like this is extremely revealing and interesting but for I feel like the image format and red lines turn people off and make it easy to conflate with right-wing crackpot conspiracy (be they valid or not). Put the same info in a nice clean article and you basically have The Intercept, which people eat up.



the return of ~aesthetics to the rhizzone?

this video by iraqi hezbollah was very impressive

#365
Post rating: ~

Petrol posted:

tears posted:

petrol-kun can you please update your OP with the klaus theweleit stuff which i didn't know was buried in the middle of thread, otsukaresama desu

finally did this because i am procrastinating hard with an assignment due in a few days haha kill me



i see you failed to mention Putin in all this, comrade

are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?

#366
Post rating: ~

xipe posted:

are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?


the closest i have seen is what parenti has to say about it http://disinfo.com/2010/09/conspiracy-phobia-on-the-left/

#367
Post rating: +

are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?



The only tinfoil tier thing that I have read about Red Russia is that they faked the Roswell alien crash to throw the allies off balance.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/
space/a6799/area-51-was-the-roswell-ufo-really-a-soviet-hoax-5794200/

Popular Mechanics posted:

N.M. Jacobsen's take veers from the standard conspiracy narrative in just about every imaginable respect: The saucer, she writes, was Russian-made and crewed by human children who were surgically altered to resemble aliens by Nazi death-camp doctor Joseph Mengele, acting at Joseph Stalin's behest.


#368
Post rating: +
senility is the deepest psyop of all
#369
Post rating: ~

Barbarossa posted:

are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?

The only tinfoil tier thing that I have read about Red Russia is that they faked the Roswell alien crash to throw the allies off balance.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/
space/a6799/area-51-was-the-roswell-ufo-really-a-soviet-hoax-5794200/

Popular Mechanics posted:

N.M. Jacobsen's take veers from the standard conspiracy narrative in just about every imaginable respect: The saucer, she writes, was Russian-made and crewed by human children who were surgically altered to resemble aliens by Nazi death-camp doctor Joseph Mengele, acting at Joseph Stalin's behest.




sorry i didnt phrase that well: i meant tying the various deep state & kkkonspiracies into a more rigorous material analysis of what is going on, as is done with Capitalism




thanks petrol. nafeez ahmed seems to be trying to go in this direction as well

#370
Post rating: ~
one minor conspiracy i'm mulling over:

in the 70s & 80s paedophiles in the UK made a big push to legalise "free love" with children, smuggled into (and accepted by) the wider sexual liberation movements happening at that time

https://ianpace.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/pie-and-the-gay-left-in-britain-the-account-by-lucy-robinson-plus-various-articles-newly-online/

https://theukdatabase.com/councillorspolitical-party-affiliated/westminster-scandal-114-secret-files-on-paedophile-cases-missing/more-than-10-politicians-on-list-held-by-police-investigating-westminster-paedophile-ring/the-civil-servant-in-the-home-offices-pie-funding-inquiry-and-his-academic-articles-on-boy-love/p-i-e/

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26352378



40 years later those same fluffy areas of the left are being mobilised to support the issues of refugees welcome and sex worker rights.

if i wanted to make lots of children available and normalise their sexual exploitation, this would be good groundwork to lay.
if child labor is renormalised, and sex work is just work ... then whats the big deal with child sex work?

the surge of global terror-crime gangs and uncounted numbers of children who have disappeared take care of the rest




UN & World bank replacing refugee camps with traveling free trade zones
https://refugeecities.org/portfolio/opportunity-resources/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-trapped-greece-children-girl-raped-boys-selling-sex-prostitution-eu-athens-a7695971.html
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Lebanon-Over-70-of-Syrian-Refugee-Children-Forced-into-Labor-20160412-0016.html
#371
Post rating: ~
look into pizzagate, google infowars dot com
#372
Post rating: ~


any truth in this? can someone confirm if this is correct?
#373
Post rating: +

xipe posted:


yeah, uh. linking the 70s british paedo mainstreaming movement with the current sexual exploitation of refugees is a bit

#374
Post rating: +
the Monster thing is real
#375
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~
it says 50/50/50 bc Monster energy drinks gives u perfect "third eye vision" "Monster ENergy Drink: You drink it™"
#376
Post rating: ~
agreed, positing as something to ponder researching contemporary sources from the past when a section the left was fooled into making terrible mistakes to compare with a similar section of the left making similar decisions in the context of a global dirty war against women & girls is kkkrazy funny
#377
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~
child sex tourism is actually very real and theres also a long history of the uk not giving one shit about massive sex abuse in state and church run instituations soo..
#378
Post rating: +
it didn't come off as a comparison of the left getting sucked into supporting terrible things so much as a theory that what we're seeing now with refugee exploitation is a new avenue for paedo mainstreaming. that's why the responses were so dismissive. i've no doubt there is a lot of sexual exploitation of refugee kids including some organised trafficking but it's a long bow to draw from that to refugee camps openly becoming child sex markets
#379
Post rating: ~
i was not posting any hard theories ("mulling") u could interpret it in whatever way u wanted.

looking at paedophile conspiracies of the recent past is worthwhile in itself, i reckon.

as for thinking there is merely 'some organised trafficking' of refugees, thats a really low bar ... but since there is little investigation or numbers then people can say whatever they want.

even the MSM is reporting open slave & organ markets in refugee camps however
https://www.iom.int/news/iom-learns-slave-market-conditions-endangering-migrants-north-africa
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-trafficking-idUSKBN17S1V8
#380
Post rating: +
the theory that people fighting for rights and better conditions for sex workers are part of a conspiracy to bring back child prostitution is very distasteful to me and is identical to the male fascist bloggers take on the issue
#381
Post rating: ~
i find it distasteful that we have successfully branded as 'empowering' our practice of ripping out & throwing - multi-millions of women & children, safe & secure in their societies & communities till just a few years ago - into a whirlpool where they must 'voluntarily' or not sell their bodies (literally organ by organ or sexual act) to survive.

the actors involved in this are quite open about it you can easily get info from the horses mouth of 1) NGOs managing refugees (and their self-promotion of it) 2) terror & crime groups managing refugees 3) where they both get their money from 4) refugees themselves

the left decided to mobilise round 'refugees welcome' (including 'migrant sex workers') instead of 'no war' & this is the results.
one might ask, qui has bono'd?
#382
Post rating: +
i dont want to argue about this xipe because i think we are taking about two different things, what i object to is sex worker organisation being tarred as just something organised and pushed by liberals (in alliance with pedophiles?) whos ultimate aim is a proleiferation of sex work(?), rather than something that comes from within those groups who are forced to do sex work and are very in need of organised protection due to being one of the most vulnerable groups of people, faced with exculusion and descrimination from literally everyone, including many who claim to be "on the left" or w/ever
#383
Post rating: +
nafeez ahmed has definitely written the best work on the topic of state/bourgeoisie personal networks that ive seen
#384
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +
even private schools for the rich in britain were thoroughly saturated with abuse, that's why you had the open pedo movement of the 70s and even now you have the sun running full page crush porn featuring theresa may... i dont think there's going to be like, a red nightlight district in barnsbury, just a huge amount of rape in whatever half-privatized system is set up to profit off the housing of immigrants. the liberal failure here is talking about accepting migrants without caring to end the conditions that create migrants. like accepting them as citizens should be taken for granted and a principled anti-war stance needs to stay at the front of the argument. idk if this post helps anyone but whatever its written now
#385
Post rating: +

xipe posted:

the left decided to mobilise round 'refugees welcome' (including 'migrant sex workers') instead of 'no war' & this is the results.
one might ask, qui has bono'd?


the things you're talking about are indirect results of war. the creation of huge numbers of refugees is not, i think, an imperialist aim of the war in syria; now that they exist and have started imposing themselves on the imperial core, the parasites of organised crime are taking advantage of the situation (with little to no resistance from the organs of state). left strategy has practically nothing to do with this beyond the hope that a stronger 'hands off syria' effort might eventually help move the cause - the war - towards a quicker and better conclusion.

#386
Post rating: +

tears posted:

i dont want to argue about this xipe because i think we are taking about two different things, what i object to is sex worker organisation being tarred as just something organised and pushed by liberals (in alliance with pedophiles?) whos ultimate aim is a proleiferation of sex work(?), rather than something that comes from within those groups who are forced to do sex work and are very in need of organised protection due to being one of the most vulnerable groups of people, faced with exculusion and descrimination from literally everyone, including many who claim to be "on the left" or w/ever



the best strategy for minimizing the harm to prostituted people is not advocated by these groups though, almost none of these supposedly "pro-sex worker" organizations advocate for criminalizing johns while decriminalizing those who are prostituted. that leads us back to the question, if these groups are actually interested in the rights and welfare of prostituted people, why are most of them advocating for policies and changes that normalize sex slavery? it is because it is part of a larger cultural movement to commodify sex, dehumanize women, and promote degenerate sexual mores.

the left has been so thoroughly infiltrated by those advocating a neoliberalized sexual ethos that huge swathes of the left cannot even bring themselves to roundly condemn prostitution as an institution.

#387
Post rating: +
#388
Post rating: +

Petrol posted:

the creation of huge numbers of refugees is not, i think, an imperialist aim of the war in syria



The (beneficial) results of, and the empire's "solutions" to, this refugee crisis point to it being one of the primary aims of the imperial war in Syria. depopulation (especially of the intelligentsia), by any means necessary, has been part of parcel of every single imperial action. in fact, the more i think about this, the more it looks like it was the primary aim, alongside destroying the productive capacity of syria's industry and dismantling the state.

#389
Post rating: ~
i thought this thread was about debunking conspiracies but after reading this page im no longer so sure
#390
Post rating: ~
*backflips the hell out of this thread*
#391
Post rating: ~
i wasnt really talking about western mafias - from start of syrian uprising one of the main fundraisers for death squads is to kidnap people & sell them back to their family or other gangs... there are 10+ million refugees in syria or borders with turkey, lebanon unknown how many have just disappeared.
of course these gangs are now massive & with multinational supply chains and ratlines into europe within the refugee pipeline

"left strategy has practically nothing to do with this beyond the hope that a stronger 'hands off syria' effort might eventually help move the cause - the war - towards a quicker and better conclusion. "

of course the left 'strategy' of abandoning anti-war in favour of pro-refugee has an effect ... if we stopped giving the alqaeda & friends more aid & military aid than we do isreal they & the war would have ended years ago.

and of course the NGOs who profit from & manage refugees, who get multi $100mln contracts from USAID are welcome in left-liberal spaces and use that left-liberal cred to call for more wars and more refugees
#392
Post rating: ~

belgend posted:

i thought this thread was about debunking conspiracies but after reading this page im no longer so sure


if you check the OP you'll see it's meant to be for conspiracy connoisseurs... the stuff that gets dismissed as conspiracy theory all too easily but is verifiably real deep state and/or class collusion shenanigans

#393
Post rating: +

pogfan1996 posted:

tears posted:

i dont want to argue about this xipe because i think we are taking about two different things, what i object to is sex worker organisation being tarred as just something organised and pushed by liberals (in alliance with pedophiles?) whos ultimate aim is a proleiferation of sex work(?), rather than something that comes from within those groups who are forced to do sex work and are very in need of organised protection due to being one of the most vulnerable groups of people, faced with exculusion and descrimination from literally everyone, including many who claim to be "on the left" or w/ever

the best strategy for minimizing the harm to prostituted people is not advocated by these groups though, almost none of these supposedly "pro-sex worker" organizations advocate for criminalizing johns while decriminalizing those who are prostituted. that leads us back to the question, if these groups are actually interested in the rights and welfare of prostituted people, why are most of them advocating for policies and changes that normalize sex slavery? it is because it is part of a larger cultural movement to commodify sex, dehumanize women, and promote degenerate sexual mores.

the left has been so thoroughly infiltrated by those advocating a neoliberalized sexual ethos that huge swathes of the left cannot even bring themselves to roundly condemn prostitution as an institution.



i disagree with lots iin this post pogfan, sorry , we could argue about it but i dont really want to

if anyone really cares i would say read the Durbar Mahila Samanwaya Committee's manifesto on sex worker organisation in Kolkata- http://www.bayswan.org/manifest.html , preferably before they do the thing where they write the big wall of text

Edited by tears ()

#394
Post rating: +
if anyone is interested in a longer examination of decriminalization this is a good place to start

http://www.feminisms.org/3265/the-myths-of-bedford-v-canada-why-decriminalizing-prostitution-won%E2%80%99t-help/
#395
Post rating: ~
if you want, make a thread to discuss prostitution and i can tell you all about the intricate differences in appoaches to prostitution in scandinavian countries and hows the "nordic model" doesn't exist except in peoples heads. also how the police are the biggest perpetrator of sex trafficking....now thats a conspiracy theory i can get behind
#396
Post rating: +
my favorite thing about people who bang on about the "sweden model" is that no one ever mentions how the decriminalisation of prostitution in sweden only applies to swedish citizens and how the Aliens Act explicitly forbids the selling of sex if you're not a citizen and is used by the feds to round up and deport the non white people
#397
Post rating: ~
whenever this topic comes up, the mostly male non-sex worker posters of this forum share their half baked thoughts about solving the sex work riddle, resulting in a trainwreck of a thread. so like tears said, feel free to make a new thread if y'all really need to do that
#398
Post rating: +

xipe posted:

of course the left 'strategy' of abandoning anti-war in favour of pro-refugee has an effect ... if we stopped giving the alqaeda & friends more aid & military aid than we do isreal they & the war would have ended years ago.


i think an emphasis on pro refugee organising probably has more to do with it being a question that is generally practically actionable as opposed to anti-war organising which rarely develops beyond sloganeering. if left organisation could immediately and meaningfully impact the degree of state support for al-qaeda a lot of people would probably be focusing on that.

#399
Post rating: +


Based on the patterns I observe with these kind of events thus far, is it fair to guess that the NSA orchestrated the NHS attack through a third party with plausible deniability? Or orchestrated the "leaking/stealing" of the vulnerabilities? I'm also trying to imagine what the motive for such a move could be, perhaps just undermining the NHS in general. Or I'm looking too hard for something that's not there, I dunno.
#400
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +
No, the NHS attack could have been done by anybody, a suite of NSA zero-day exploits targeting all versions of microsoft was publicized a couple weeks back. As i understand it any infected unpatched computer or network was immediately vulnerable