tears posted:petrol-kun can you please update your OP with the klaus theweleit stuff which i didn't know was buried in the middle of thread, otsukaresama desu
finally did this because i am procrastinating hard with an assignment due in a few days haha kill me
mediumpig posted:Shit like this is extremely revealing and interesting but for I feel like the image format and red lines turn people off and make it easy to conflate with right-wing crackpot conspiracy (be they valid or not). Put the same info in a nice clean article and you basically have The Intercept, which people eat up.
the return of ~aesthetics to the rhizzone?
this video by iraqi hezbollah was very impressive
Petrol posted:tears posted:petrol-kun can you please update your OP with the klaus theweleit stuff which i didn't know was buried in the middle of thread, otsukaresama desu
finally did this because i am procrastinating hard with an assignment due in a few days haha kill me
i see you failed to mention Putin in all this, comrade
are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?
xipe posted:are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?
the closest i have seen is what parenti has to say about it http://disinfo.com/2010/09/conspiracy-phobia-on-the-left/
are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?
The only tinfoil tier thing that I have read about Red Russia is that they faked the Roswell alien crash to throw the allies off balance.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/
space/a6799/area-51-was-the-roswell-ufo-really-a-soviet-hoax-5794200/
Popular Mechanics posted:N.M. Jacobsen's take veers from the standard conspiracy narrative in just about every imaginable respect: The saucer, she writes, was Russian-made and crewed by human children who were surgically altered to resemble aliens by Nazi death-camp doctor Joseph Mengele, acting at Joseph Stalin's behest.
Barbarossa posted:are there any materialist analyses of conspiracy theories, deep state etc?
The only tinfoil tier thing that I have read about Red Russia is that they faked the Roswell alien crash to throw the allies off balance.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/
space/a6799/area-51-was-the-roswell-ufo-really-a-soviet-hoax-5794200/
Popular Mechanics posted:N.M. Jacobsen's take veers from the standard conspiracy narrative in just about every imaginable respect: The saucer, she writes, was Russian-made and crewed by human children who were surgically altered to resemble aliens by Nazi death-camp doctor Joseph Mengele, acting at Joseph Stalin's behest.
sorry i didnt phrase that well: i meant tying the various deep state & kkkonspiracies into a more rigorous material analysis of what is going on, as is done with Capitalism
thanks petrol. nafeez ahmed seems to be trying to go in this direction as well
in the 70s & 80s paedophiles in the UK made a big push to legalise "free love" with children, smuggled into (and accepted by) the wider sexual liberation movements happening at that time
https://ianpace.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/pie-and-the-gay-left-in-britain-the-account-by-lucy-robinson-plus-various-articles-newly-online/
https://theukdatabase.com/councillorspolitical-party-affiliated/westminster-scandal-114-secret-files-on-paedophile-cases-missing/more-than-10-politicians-on-list-held-by-police-investigating-westminster-paedophile-ring/the-civil-servant-in-the-home-offices-pie-funding-inquiry-and-his-academic-articles-on-boy-love/p-i-e/
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26352378
40 years later those same fluffy areas of the left are being mobilised to support the issues of refugees welcome and sex worker rights.
if i wanted to make lots of children available and normalise their sexual exploitation, this would be good groundwork to lay.
if child labor is renormalised, and sex work is just work ... then whats the big deal with child sex work?
the surge of global terror-crime gangs and uncounted numbers of children who have disappeared take care of the rest
UN & World bank replacing refugee camps with traveling free trade zones
https://refugeecities.org/portfolio/opportunity-resources/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-trapped-greece-children-girl-raped-boys-selling-sex-prostitution-eu-athens-a7695971.html
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Lebanon-Over-70-of-Syrian-Refugee-Children-Forced-into-Labor-20160412-0016.html
any truth in this? can someone confirm if this is correct?
xipe posted:
yeah, uh. linking the 70s british paedo mainstreaming movement with the current sexual exploitation of refugees is a bit
looking at paedophile conspiracies of the recent past is worthwhile in itself, i reckon.
as for thinking there is merely 'some organised trafficking' of refugees, thats a really low bar ... but since there is little investigation or numbers then people can say whatever they want.
even the MSM is reporting open slave & organ markets in refugee camps however
https://www.iom.int/news/iom-learns-slave-market-conditions-endangering-migrants-north-africa
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-trafficking-idUSKBN17S1V8
the actors involved in this are quite open about it you can easily get info from the horses mouth of 1) NGOs managing refugees (and their self-promotion of it) 2) terror & crime groups managing refugees 3) where they both get their money from 4) refugees themselves
the left decided to mobilise round 'refugees welcome' (including 'migrant sex workers') instead of 'no war' & this is the results.
one might ask, qui has bono'd?
xipe posted:the left decided to mobilise round 'refugees welcome' (including 'migrant sex workers') instead of 'no war' & this is the results.
one might ask, qui has bono'd?
the things you're talking about are indirect results of war. the creation of huge numbers of refugees is not, i think, an imperialist aim of the war in syria; now that they exist and have started imposing themselves on the imperial core, the parasites of organised crime are taking advantage of the situation (with little to no resistance from the organs of state). left strategy has practically nothing to do with this beyond the hope that a stronger 'hands off syria' effort might eventually help move the cause - the war - towards a quicker and better conclusion.
tears posted:i dont want to argue about this xipe because i think we are taking about two different things, what i object to is sex worker organisation being tarred as just something organised and pushed by liberals (in alliance with pedophiles?) whos ultimate aim is a proleiferation of sex work(?), rather than something that comes from within those groups who are forced to do sex work and are very in need of organised protection due to being one of the most vulnerable groups of people, faced with exculusion and descrimination from literally everyone, including many who claim to be "on the left" or w/ever
the best strategy for minimizing the harm to prostituted people is not advocated by these groups though, almost none of these supposedly "pro-sex worker" organizations advocate for criminalizing johns while decriminalizing those who are prostituted. that leads us back to the question, if these groups are actually interested in the rights and welfare of prostituted people, why are most of them advocating for policies and changes that normalize sex slavery? it is because it is part of a larger cultural movement to commodify sex, dehumanize women, and promote degenerate sexual mores.
the left has been so thoroughly infiltrated by those advocating a neoliberalized sexual ethos that huge swathes of the left cannot even bring themselves to roundly condemn prostitution as an institution.
This debate can get heated so I thought I would solve it for you. pic.twitter.com/QRGH1Iluab
— Donny Baseball (@getfiscal) May 13, 2017
Petrol posted:the creation of huge numbers of refugees is not, i think, an imperialist aim of the war in syria
The (beneficial) results of, and the empire's "solutions" to, this refugee crisis point to it being one of the primary aims of the imperial war in Syria. depopulation (especially of the intelligentsia), by any means necessary, has been part of parcel of every single imperial action. in fact, the more i think about this, the more it looks like it was the primary aim, alongside destroying the productive capacity of syria's industry and dismantling the state.
of course these gangs are now massive & with multinational supply chains and ratlines into europe within the refugee pipeline
"left strategy has practically nothing to do with this beyond the hope that a stronger 'hands off syria' effort might eventually help move the cause - the war - towards a quicker and better conclusion. "
of course the left 'strategy' of abandoning anti-war in favour of pro-refugee has an effect ... if we stopped giving the alqaeda & friends more aid & military aid than we do isreal they & the war would have ended years ago.
and of course the NGOs who profit from & manage refugees, who get multi $100mln contracts from USAID are welcome in left-liberal spaces and use that left-liberal cred to call for more wars and more refugees
belgend posted:i thought this thread was about debunking conspiracies but after reading this page im no longer so sure
if you check the OP you'll see it's meant to be for conspiracy connoisseurs... the stuff that gets dismissed as conspiracy theory all too easily but is verifiably real deep state and/or class collusion shenanigans
pogfan1996 posted:tears posted:i dont want to argue about this xipe because i think we are taking about two different things, what i object to is sex worker organisation being tarred as just something organised and pushed by liberals (in alliance with pedophiles?) whos ultimate aim is a proleiferation of sex work(?), rather than something that comes from within those groups who are forced to do sex work and are very in need of organised protection due to being one of the most vulnerable groups of people, faced with exculusion and descrimination from literally everyone, including many who claim to be "on the left" or w/ever
the best strategy for minimizing the harm to prostituted people is not advocated by these groups though, almost none of these supposedly "pro-sex worker" organizations advocate for criminalizing johns while decriminalizing those who are prostituted. that leads us back to the question, if these groups are actually interested in the rights and welfare of prostituted people, why are most of them advocating for policies and changes that normalize sex slavery? it is because it is part of a larger cultural movement to commodify sex, dehumanize women, and promote degenerate sexual mores.
the left has been so thoroughly infiltrated by those advocating a neoliberalized sexual ethos that huge swathes of the left cannot even bring themselves to roundly condemn prostitution as an institution.
i disagree with lots iin this post pogfan, sorry , we could argue about it but i dont really want to
if anyone really cares i would say read the Durbar Mahila Samanwaya Committee's manifesto on sex worker organisation in Kolkata- http://www.bayswan.org/manifest.html , preferably before they do the thing where they write the big wall of text
Edited by tears ()
http://www.feminisms.org/3265/the-myths-of-bedford-v-canada-why-decriminalizing-prostitution-won%E2%80%99t-help/
xipe posted:of course the left 'strategy' of abandoning anti-war in favour of pro-refugee has an effect ... if we stopped giving the alqaeda & friends more aid & military aid than we do isreal they & the war would have ended years ago.
i think an emphasis on pro refugee organising probably has more to do with it being a question that is generally practically actionable as opposed to anti-war organising which rarely develops beyond sloganeering. if left organisation could immediately and meaningfully impact the degree of state support for al-qaeda a lot of people would probably be focusing on that.
Extraordinary: Microsoft officially confirms @NSAGov developed the flaw that brought down hospitals this weekend. https://t.co/zQ6785YpFf
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) May 14, 2017
Based on the patterns I observe with these kind of events thus far, is it fair to guess that the NSA orchestrated the NHS attack through a third party with plausible deniability? Or orchestrated the "leaking/stealing" of the vulnerabilities? I'm also trying to imagine what the motive for such a move could be, perhaps just undermining the NHS in general. Or I'm looking too hard for something that's not there, I dunno.