#1401
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

marimite posted:

The largest internet platform against this right now is /r/The_Donald and /pol/. Smdh.



its us, the rhizzone.

#1402
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

cars posted:

"wait and see" is a fair position as long as it's clarified by noting that the White Helmets are an Islamic-extremist linked lobbying group for the invasion of Syria, funded largely by governments hostile to Syria, that masquerades as a humanitarian NGO; that the "activist journalists" cited by the Western press are part of SOHR and SCHR who are also Islamic-extremist linked lobbying groups for the invasion of Syria, funded largely by governments hostile to Syria, that masquerade as humanitarian NGOs; that the government of Turkey has a vested and declared interest in the destruction of Syria; and that any and all "reports" to date on the question at hand have been made solely by the above groups, whose stated goal has been for years the invasion of Syria and the overthrow of its government, in the complete absence of any neutral, independent investigator and without any corroboration by the international news media, who are themselves also entirely absent from the story they're purporting to cover. Then it's fine



reminder

#1403
Post rating: +
Homs governor says 5 killed, 7 wounded. if that's true, that's one person killed for every 11.8 tomahawk missiles launched. whatever the aim was here, be it starting armageddon or just destroying the little goodwill that exists between the united states and russia, I'm sure there was a cheaper way to do it
#1404
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
reminds me of

cars posted:

todays advanced Libyan can absorb 2, even 3 precision guided bombs while actively plotting, and that isnt even their final form






#1405
Post rating: +

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

libs: i guess you all who said hillary was a hawk feel stupid now
hillary: i would have done this exact thing, but faster and more


I'd just be happy to see libs acting like being a hawk is a bad thing right now; all the ones I see are either in "THIS IS TRUMP'S FIRST REAL TEST" mode or still trying to figure out a way to tie this into russian conspiracy theories

#1406
Post rating: ~
Turkish op is what I heard
#1407
Post rating: ~
it's kind of funny to see the cognitive dissonance of msm outlets (specifically the guardian) that are on the one hand frothing at the mouth for this to happen and on the other are using it to further discredit trump and the administration
#1408
Post rating: +
LIBERALS: Trump is a dangerous and crazy president, he's very bad
TRUMP: *launches $150billion of missiles into syria*
LIBERALS *grabbing guns* lead us, warleader
#1409
Post rating: +
also if you haven't read it sy hersh's piece on the 2013 cw attack in ghouta puts a lot of the events of the past week into perspective:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

the attack in khan sheikhoun is just way too convenient, especially given what has followed.
#1410
Post rating: +
i'm pretty happy that the rhizzone avoided endorsing trump. seemed like some people wanted to, out of some misguided anti-imperialism, but a fucking showboat like trump could never resist the spectacle of a war, especially with the whole state apparatus behind him.
basically all the arguments brought up for him have been debunked, i kind of think whoever posted that thread owes an apology for either purposely or accidently trying to mislead our young impressionable lurkers.

as for as the syria business, the simplest explanation is they hit a chemical weapons factory. unless they are the stupidest people in existence (which i'm not inclined to believe) they have absolutely no reason to use something like this when their enemies are on the retreat.

this is not like a terrorist attack in turkey, where you can guess that if it hit a large crowd of innocent people, it's probably isis, and if it hit a police station or a bus full of soldiers, it's probably the pkk. so it makes sense to wait and see what facts, and the accompanying spin, before we start expressing particularly strong viewpoints either way. but we all probably know this, and like i said, i don't think the syrian state would be dumb enough to do something like this.
#1411
Online
Post rating: +

Red_Canadian posted:

i'm pretty happy that the rhizzone avoided endorsing trump. seemed like some people wanted to


Haha not a single person here except Goatstein would ever endorse or vote for Trump, it's impossible to even imagine it. We're not idiots who kneejerk to the opposite of whatever liberals are caring about. We're communists

#1412
Post rating: ~
haha, i actually meant goatstein, i just didn't want to name him since that's not my style.
#1413
"Jpg." - Hank Hill
Post rating: +
i didn't really support trump, i wrote that as a gambit with a clickbait headline in an (admittedly failed) ploy to get people Mad. i do hate the shit out of hillary tho
#1414
"Jpg." - Hank Hill
Post rating: ~
this isn't a retcon by the way i said it repeatedly before writing that
#1415
Post rating: ~
also didn't you already do your mea culpa when he didn't put hildog in jail?
#1416
Post rating: ~
I've been impressed, most libs I know oppose Trump's actions even if it's justified as "Trump being crazy" instead of doing exactly what Hillary and Obama want to do. This works because, thank god, Hillary has been discredited even among the mainstream (though this will change if the DNC finds it necessary). You basically have to support Sanders to not be seen as an embarrassment and Sanders himself seems to have been forced by this support into a post-election role focusing on domestic issues. This is only noteworthy because the entire liberal media is now beating the drums of war and pulling out all the stops to either back Trump or claim they came up with the idea first and want to bomb Syria even more. Guess we're back in 2002 with a slight change of characters and setting.
#1417
Online
Post rating: +
Yeah the entire media and political apparatus is getting its rocks off about this escalation even though I don't believe the majority of the public supports it. Our institutions are completely unrepresentative of the people in the United $nakkkes and it frustrates me and angers me
#1418
Post rating: ~
if you want an outside view. belge media's line is "putin hates it! but the allies of the us seem to like it??? its a complicated issue"

but then again a belge radio station got a syrian refugee on and she basically said hands off syria soo
#1419
Post rating: ~

Constantignoble posted:


It's a good ep.

#1420
Post rating: ~
not to defend trump but its pretty obvious that this was the culmination and indeed the entire point of month after month of moronic insinuations about soviet russian collusion. maybe he would have pushed the button anyway because murder is just a good way for presidents to change headlines but if this ends up in a full scale invasion the blame lies with the democrats
#1421
Black Belt
Post rating: +

Protest: Stop Trump’s War against Syria -- 5:00 p.m. Friday
The Trump administration is waging a new U.S. war of aggression in the Middle East. The target this time is Syria. More than 70 U.S. cruise missiles hit Syria tonight.

The ANSWER Coalition is calling on people and organizations to mobilize nationally coordinated protests Friday at 5:00 p.m. and throughout the weekend to demand an end to the U.S. war against Syria. These protests will be taking place in cities across the country, including Washington, D.C., at the White House.

It is noteworthy that in the hours before Trump ordered military strikes on Syria, Hillary Clinton emerged back into the public spotlight to demand that Trump carry out military strikes against Syria. The Trump-led Republican Party and the Democrats will now reunite on the basis of a new U.S. war in the Middle East.

Again, following a tried and true script, U.S. imperialist military actions against an independent, sovereign Middle Eastern government takes place under the pretext of protecting civilians from weapons of mass destruction.

The hypocrisy of the war-mongering politicians and media is astounding. The United States has been bombing Iraq, Yemen and elsewhere daily, killing hundreds of civilians in Mosul, Iraq in one attack alone. Scores of families, including their children, were murdered by American bombs. The U.S. media has been virtually silent about this crime.

In March, the Pentagon carried out 70 bombings of Yemen, more than in all of 2016, and continues to provide the bombs and bombers for the genocidal Saudi-led war on that country.

Now, the U.S. government is bombing the secular government of Bashar al-Assad at the moment that the Syrian national army was defeating al-Qaeda, the so-called Islamic State and other terrorist armed organizations. The Syrian government denies using chemical weapons. Instead of bombing first and asking questions later, shouldn't there be an objective investigation into the facts?

Again, the U.S. government describes its war motives as humanitarian. Again, the U.S. government asserts that the targeted government possesses and has used weapons of mass destruction as the rationale for another bombing campaign.

At this point, every person in the United States should assume that the U.S. government, the Pentagon, and the CIA are lying when they seek to justify this new military aggression.

Let us not forget that the U.S. government insisted that it was required to go to war in Iraq to prevent the government of Saddam Hussein from using weapons of mass destruction. No such weapons existed in 2003. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died, tens of thousands of American troops suffered life-changing injuries or were killed, and the country of Iraq was fragmented, allowing ISIS to come into existence.

Trump’s military strikes against Syria pose a grave danger of escalating into a regional or even global confrontation. The Syrian government, in its battle against al-Qaeda, ISIS and other armed groups, has the support of Russia and Iran.

The ANSWER Coalition is calling on people and organizations to mobilize nationally coordinated protests Friday at 5:00 p.m. and throughout the weekend to demand an end to the U.S. war against Syria. These protests will be taking place in cities across the country, including Washington, D.C., at the White House.

Click here to submit details of your local action.
Check this page for a growing listing of events.
Please make an urgently-needed donation to support the anti-war movement.

Edited by JohnBeige ()

#1422
Online
Post rating: +
ill be there
#1423
Post rating: ~
is there a good site out there dedicated to debunking bs news stories about syria? whenever i try to google accurate information on alleged events i just run into more "civil war" propaganda articles. no twitter stuff please

bonus: how about one for north korea too
#1424
chickeon
Post rating: +

kamelred posted:

not to defend trump but its pretty obvious that this was the culmination and indeed the entire point of month after month of moronic insinuations about soviet russian collusion. maybe he would have pushed the button anyway because murder is just a good way for presidents to change headlines but if this ends up in a full scale invasion the blame lies with the democrats


the blame lies with the entire political economic military and propaganda apparatus of amerikkkan empire, why bother proportioning blame between various factions of the ruling class? we wouldn't split hairs on blaming various particular contingencies within the Nazi party, I see no reason to treat the democrat and republican wings of american fascism any differently

e: and that's ignoring the fact that Trump personally is as imperialist as anyone else and has been continuously on board with and pursuing regime change in all the same places as Obama or any other imperial steward in the big chair

#1425
Black Belt
Post rating: ~
E: sanitized

Edited by JohnBeige ()

#1426
The chickens always come home
Post rating: ~
bing bing bong bong
#1427
Post rating: +

mediumpig posted:

Is there any real consensus (at least here) as to who carried the 2013 chemical attack at Ghouta? I wasn't following it at the time, but all I've read so far makes it just as suspect to me.



well u can either place ur trust in celebrated journalist seymour hersh with his array of contacts, or D&D-mod and blogger eliot higgins/brown moses with his array of google maps screengrabs; but be warned, if u believe hersh over the blogger then that makes you an apologist for a mass murderer and a conspiracy theorist

#1428
Post rating: +
the blog called Who Ghouta was basically an open collaborative citizen-journalist type thing, but since it reached a different conclusion than Higgins, it too is pure conspiracy theory

oh, there was this other meta-analysis more recently, which is less conspiracy theory than conspiracist modeling, if i remember the SA reaction correctly

Edited by Constantignoble ()

#1429
Post rating: +++++
#1430
Post rating: +++++


Bolivian Ambassador to the United Nations, Sacha Llorenti, slammed the US missile launch, arguing that it was detrimental to the investigation of the recent chemical attack in Idlib province.

Llorenti showed a photo of infamous US Ambassador to the United Nations, Colin Powell during his 2003 speech to the United Nations when Powell showed a fake sample of the Iarqi chemical weapons. The Powell speech and fake accusations of the Iraqi government in developing the nonexistent weapons program set a ground for the US-led invasion to Iraq.



#1431
Online
Post rating: +
noice
#1432
Post rating: ~
apparently sputnik had a photojournalist at the hit airbase and one of the pics they've been showing is of a bunch of discarded soviet chemical weapons containers



https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704071052410762-syria-army-airfield-arrival/
#1433
Post rating: +
slow down there buddy are you saying the russians are supporting assad?
#1434
Post rating: ~

belgend posted:

slow down there buddy are you saying the russians are supporting assad?



focus on the chemical weapons maybe?

#1435
Post rating: ~

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

i didn't really support trump, i wrote that as a gambit with a clickbait headline in an (admittedly failed) ploy to get people Mad. i do hate the shit out of hillary tho


well then, i guess you can be happy, since i guess i must still be mad about it haha.

#1436
Post rating: +
a lebanese law professor pointed this out:

This is very important: the ICRC just changed the conflict status in Syria from "internal armed conflict" or civil war (common Article 3 conflict in Geneva Conventions) to "international armed conflict" (common Article 2 conflict). The ICRC is considered the "guardian" of the Geneva Conventions and its commentaries are considered a key source of International Law so this labelling is very significant. Following the US attack on Syria, the ICRC spokesperson declared "Any military operation by a state on the territory of another without the consent of the other amounts to an international armed conflict." As a standard for comparison, Libya was immediately classified as an internal conflict.

I am no expert but I do teach a grad course on the Law of Armed Conflict so here are my preliminary thoughts about the political and legal implications of this: (1) the body of law regulating article 2 conflicts is much wider than article 3 conflicts, affording the Syrian government legal protections it didn't previously enjoy (2) the forces of the Syrian Arab Army will now be treated not only as "lawful combatants" but are also given the "combatant's privilege", "prisoner of war" and "protected persons" status and rights, meaning they can't be tried if they are captured for taking part in hostilities, unlike the rebels who are "unlawful combatants" --even the US-backed ones--as per Article 3 internal conflicts.

This lawful status did not extend to the Taliban's army when it still represented the Afghan state fighting an Article 2 conflict with US invading forces (3) as a "High Contracting Party" to the Conventions, the US is now liable for war crimes too (4) any Syrian response to the US attack, or one carried out by Syria and its allies, (Article 51 of the UN Charter permits "collective self-defense") is now legal (5) most importantly, the Syrian state is politically legitimized as the legal representative of the Syrian people and its sovereignty recognized.
#1437
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

Panopticon posted:

apparently sputnik had a photojournalist at the hit airbase and one of the pics they've been showing is of a bunch of discarded soviet chemical weapons containers



https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201704071052410762-syria-army-airfield-arrival/
#1438
Post rating: ~
Very interesting. Does the reclassification also affect what is considered a legal response to Israeli and Turkish attacks?
#1439
Post rating: ~

xipe posted:

a lebanese law professor pointed this out:

This is very important: the ICRC just changed the conflict status in Syria from "internal armed conflict" or civil war (common Article 3 conflict in Geneva Conventions) to "international armed conflict" (common Article 2 conflict). The ICRC is considered the "guardian" of the Geneva Conventions and its commentaries are considered a key source of International Law so this labelling is very significant. Following the US attack on Syria, the ICRC spokesperson declared "Any military operation by a state on the territory of another without the consent of the other amounts to an international armed conflict." As a standard for comparison, Libya was immediately classified as an internal conflict.

I am no expert but I do teach a grad course on the Law of Armed Conflict so here are my preliminary thoughts about the political and legal implications of this: (1) the body of law regulating article 2 conflicts is much wider than article 3 conflicts, affording the Syrian government legal protections it didn't previously enjoy (2) the forces of the Syrian Arab Army will now be treated not only as "lawful combatants" but are also given the "combatant's privilege", "prisoner of war" and "protected persons" status and rights, meaning they can't be tried if they are captured for taking part in hostilities, unlike the rebels who are "unlawful combatants" --even the US-backed ones--as per Article 3 internal conflicts.

This lawful status did not extend to the Taliban's army when it still represented the Afghan state fighting an Article 2 conflict with US invading forces (3) as a "High Contracting Party" to the Conventions, the US is now liable for war crimes too (4) any Syrian response to the US attack, or one carried out by Syria and its allies, (Article 51 of the UN Charter permits "collective self-defense") is now legal (5) most importantly, the Syrian state is politically legitimized as the legal representative of the Syrian people and its sovereignty recognized.

do you have a source for this, so I can post it elsewhere, or is this somewhat private?

#1440
Post rating: ~

Good Luck Assad

I <3 Bolivia