#1121
Yeah I think that since the US relationship with Saudi Arabia is openly realpolitik-al it's permissible to present them as barbarians that the US just can't get to behave, since this is actually convenient for explaining away why their ally is funding Islamist militias they're supposedly fighting. I'd also guess that in general journalists have to let off steam about "hm, strange" anomalies to what's supposed to be happening. I saw the NYT published an article about the fact that the SOHR has always just been one guy in London, so now they've done their duty but in such a way that this piece of information is also quarantined from having any reflexive effect on the rest of their syria reporting.
#1122
NYT and other Western news press also began to shift a lot of their sourcing to "Syrian Network for Human Rights" once they realized that they realized that SOHR had been exposed and was sinking fast in credibility. SNHR is part of the White Helmets network and so it's got a lot more Western P.R. armor around it while it makes even more ridiculous claims about the syrian army than SOHR ever did.
#1123
can i get a link to the SOHR thing in NYT? That's super surprising because he still gets cited constantly in most major outlets and i could have sworn the nyt was still among them
#1124

chickeon posted:

can i get a link to the SOHR thing in NYT? That's super surprising because he still gets cited constantly in most major outlets and i could have sworn the nyt was still among them



https://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/world/middleeast/the-man-behind-the-casualty-figures-in-syria.html

the tone for this is "activist Batman never sleeps" but it obviously doubles as a CYA piece so their writers can point to it if/when it becomes acceptable to drag them for it on TV, "hmm yes we published an article on that, Truely Amazeing Man" *strokes chin

cars was probated until (Jan. 18, 2017 02:31:31) for this post!

#1125
ahahahha 2013 what the fuck. they've absolutely been using him relentlessly since then
#1126
*nod yes it is so shameful i on purpose probated myself to draw attention to it.
#1127
good lord...

#1128
can u repost that? link is dead
#1129
damb, it's from 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMBn0qzw2as
#1130

ilmdge posted:

this is fairly good http://fair.org/home/in-syria-western-media-cheer-al-qaeda/



The Syrian government—a dictatorship known for imprisoning, torturing and disappearing dissidents—is easy to vilify. And over the last five years of Syria’s civil war, it has committed its share of atrocities.



uhhh

#1131
not everything has to lionize the lion

it's a good primer article on the media's atrocious treatment of the war, from someone who's actually been to syria, and as an added treat you can scroll down and read some cool insane louis proyect comments.
#1132
nah, synergy is right. those standard liberal disclaimers give me the absolute shits. it's the standard unsourced hyperbole jammed in there in the hope that liberals will keep listening because their worldview is still being validated on some level. to open a mostly decent article with that garbage will only have the effect of a bunch of people stopping right there, safe in the knowledge that yeah, the "assad regime" is monstrous, disinterested in the details
#1133
glad to hear i'm not the only one who violently shits himself every time he hears liberal pandering
#1134
Hell,
#1135
http://roguenationblog.com/2017/01/26/syria-propaganda-anti-imperialism-101/

For many years, western supporters of the opposition simply denied its counterrevolutionary bent. If you asked them to name the progressive or moderate groups that held sway in the opposition, they tended to call you an Assadist and name leftist activists. Yet no anti-imperialist has ever denied that there were activists who opposed — and faced persecution from — the Syrian government. At issue, of course, was and is the armed opposition. Zahran Alloush had a militia; Omar Aziz didn’t. Eventually, (most) leftist supporters of the opposition couldn’t deny its ideological makeup. Yet they fashioned several bogus arguments to rationalize their continued support for it.

1. Al Qaeda is, actually, fine. Among the more bizarre byproducts of the war in Syria is the embrace of Al Qaeda by some socialists, like Louis Proyect and Michael Karadjis.

2. Assad himself “jihadized” the opposition. The key “proof” for this assertion is Assad’s release of jihadists from prison in 2011. One big problem with the assertion is that Assad released them as part of general amnesty demanded by the opposition. “Too little too late,” one opposition spokesperson said in response. Another big problem with the assertion is that the number of jihadists released from Syrian prisons is [a] fraction of the number ushered into Syria by other countries, which is itself only a portion of the material support they’ve provided to Al Qaeda and ISIS. And let’s pretend that Assad were solely responsible for the sorry state of the opposition, that would still be the state of the opposition.

3. A “Third Way” progressive force will prevail. An extension of the activist-for-armed-opposition bait-and-switch I discuss above, the notion that an anti-Assad, anti-official-opposition force might emerge and take power is utterly fantastical. To be ideologically opposed to both the government and opposition is, of course, valid — surely, this describes a number of Syrians aligned with both camps — but to hope that a movement representing that point of view will take power is magical thinking.

4. Syria is actually Palestine. The people who employ this analogy tend to object to the notion that Syria in any way resembles Iraq or any other country targeted by western imperialism. The western left should support the reactionary Syrian opposition just as it supports Hamas, they argue. Their goal, beyond scoring quick debating points, is to try to transfer the moral credibility of the Palestinian liberation movement onto the Syrian opposition. Erasing imperialism, geopolitics, history, and common sense, the analogy usually gets the rhetorical job done on Twitter but disintegrates if you venture beyond 140 characters. Here’s the analogy corrected: Hamas teams up with Al Qaeda and with the support of the United States, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar tries to overthrow the Syrian government.

5. A lack of US support for “moderate” groups allowed Salafists to rise. If only the United States had given more and better arms — especially MANPADS — to the Free Syrian Army, then Al Qaeda and its ilk wouldn’t have come to dominate. This is an especially strange claim when it comes from people who purportedly oppose American imperialism. It perpetuates the myth that the armed opposition included ideologically admirable factions and ignores the collaboration between U.S. proxies and Al Qaeda (collaboration that the United States encouraged). It also ignores the well-known frequency with which Al Qaeda and other Salafist factions acquired the arms that the U.S. had sent to its “vetted” groups. The US was well aware that it was strengthening Al Qaeda by sending arms into Syria.

#1136
Lindsay Lohan is a Turkish asset, which is hilarious

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPyJp5yBC8z/
#1137
seen some bigot comments lately about Lohan circuiting the westernized ME ruling class. ain't me, i'd still be down for casual dating & maybe things getting serious if we have a lot in common.
#1138

ilmdge posted:

Lindsay Lohan is a Turkish asset, which is hilarious

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPyJp5yBC8z/

yeah she has been for at least a few months now. kinda weird.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/19/lindsay-lohan-slams-the-u-s-and-lavishes-praise-on-repressive-turkish-strongman-recep-tayyip-erdogan.html

#1139
between any verb/preposition and a person's name in a Daily Beast headline, you will find something astounding: a tiny Economist article


#1140

ilmdge posted:

Lindsay Lohan is a Turkish asset, which is hilarious

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPyJp5yBC8z/



lol

#1141
Does anyone have any good sources/articles about the failed coup in Turkey? Like was it just a failed NATO/CIA/TAF op to get the more "moderate" fascist in power, or a false flag or maybe both (or neither)?

Edited by wasted ()

#1142
Lindsay's agent deserves a raise
#1143
Dude, Where's my Moderate Rebels?
#1144

wasted posted:

Does anyone have any good sources/articles about the failed coup in Turkey? Like was it just a failed NATO/CIA/TAF op to get the more "moderate" fascist in power, or a false flag or maybe both (or neither)?



The statement and Q&A by the Communist Party of Turkey was comprehensive and largely, in my opinion, accurate. I read another better article on it too, don't remember where at the moment, but I'll link it when I do.

In essence, yes the coup was carried out with the blessing of, and probably in coordination with, the US. Was not a false flag. The relative decline of trade and various crises in Europe are affecting the Turkish economy greatly and the nationalist and petty bourgeois are gaining ground resulting in some reorientation within upper echelons of the AKP (the ruling party). Unacceptable to America of course. This may have been a preemptive strike, before things got worse. It may have failed in it's immediate objective, but it delivered its intended message. High doubts Turkey will break with US/NATO/EU in the immediate future.

https://www.kp.org.tr/en/basin-aciklamalari/statement-central-committee-communist-party-turkey-july-2016-en-de-ar-ru

https://libya360.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/turkish-communist-party-critical-questions-on-the-recent-coup-attempt-and-its-aftermath/

#1145

Amnesty International are now claiming that the Grand Mufti of Syria, Sheikh Badreddine Hassoun of all people (met him in person, lovely human being), signed off on up to 13,540 secret executions in Sednaya prison in Damascus (p. 17).
The report, titled 'Human Slaughterhouse', claims to have interviewed (p. 5):
- 31 men who were detained at Saydnaya
- 4 prison officials or guards who previously worked at Saydnaya
- 3 former Syrian judges
- 3 doctors who worked at Tishreen Military Hospital
- 4 Syrian lawyers
- 17 international and national experts on detention in Syria
- 22 family members of people who were or still are detained at Saydnaya
Of those 84 people they claim to have interviewed, 81 are anonymous, and only 3 come with names (p. 34).
Assuming these prisoners are being executed in complete secrecy as per the report's claims, to the point where alleged doctors, judges and prison guards can't provide any evidence that these prisoners even exist aside from their own testimony, how would the family members of these prisoners know they're being held at Sednaya?
The report also alleges (p. 28) that there are secret mass graves in Damascus, only to finish up by saying, "not having access to Syria, Amnesty International has been unable to independently verify these statements". Really, Amnesty? You couldn't get your alleged sources, especially the prison guards, to take one photo?
The second time they use the key-word 'verify' or 'verified' in their report is in a very short section titled 'Documented Deaths' (p. 40) which doesn't even refer to work they've done, but to allegedly verified deaths in Sednaya prison according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights which claims that 375 prisoners died of torture from March 2011 to October 2016.
But hang on, if SNHR knows enough about what happens inside Sednaya to the point where they know for certain that 375 prisoners died of "torture and other ill-treatment", and assuming therefore that they're capable of monitoring the transfer of prisoners to Sednaya in the first place, how on earth did they manage to miss up to 13,165 executed prisoners?
Amnesty International claims to have "obtained the names of 36 additional individuals who died as a result of torture and other ill-treatment in Saydnaya" which were "provided to Amnesty International by former detainees who witnessed the deaths in their cells". So in other words, the people that AI either met or called told them 36 names with no evidence backing up their claims, and yet we're supposed to believe them when they claim over 13K secret executions?
Finally, why would 'international and national experts' need to remain anonymous? If they really were experts they'd have literature to their name so we can check their credentials. Nope, anonymous.
If you believe this you'll believe anything.


From Jay Tharappel's (some Australian socialist or something I'm not sure) Facebook.

#1146
"not having access to Syria, ______________ has been unable to independently verify these statements" will be the unwritten footnote to every sentence of every page about this topic in the Western press, forever
#1147
#1148
they were openly and directly arming al nusra in the beginning and this fact was collectively and forcefully forgotten somehow and so there's been these weird pseudorevelations for a couple years now at least. straight up limited hangout in that ft piece

e: for a lot more reasons now that i actually read it

Edited by chickeon ()

#1149
MOM, nooo....
#1150
MOM-backed commanders have seized my PS3: the latest from Maoist Rebel News
#1151
With their focuses on direct democracy, women’s liberation, ecology, and inclusiveness beyond ethnic and religious differences, along with the direct inspiration taken from the ideas of the late Vermont-based anarchist philosopher Murray Bookchin, the Rojavan revolutionaries inspired anarchists and anti-fascists from across the world. In a manner reminiscent of the Spanish Revolution, where international contingents of anti-fascists (including George Orwell) came together to support the revolutionaries in their fight against Franco. Now, anarchists and others have come to aid the struggles of the YPJ and YPG against ISIS and the Assad regime.

Meanwhile, Trump cozies up to Putin and ignores the atrocities that have been committed by him and Assad against the people of Syria, as his administration closes the gates on refugees and attempts to create an atmosphere of fear and panic against them.

https://itsgoingdown.org/right-urges-fear-refugees-antifa-fighting-isis/

hmmmm
#1152
[account deactivated]
#1153
that's just wrong, right? I know the Syria gov't/YPG ceasefire was under some stress, but it's still basically in place?
#1154

thirdplace posted:

that's just wrong, right? I know the Syria gov't/YPG ceasefire was under some stress, but it's still basically in place?

the West is trying to kick it down because stopping the Kurds from formalizing more is the only concession they might be able to ge tout of this whole shitshow.

#1155

your_not_aleksandr posted:

the West is trying to kick it down because stopping the Kurds from formalizing more is the only concession they might be able to ge tout of this whole shitshow.



i think this is a good point. it seems to me that the obama-'supported' formation of the SDF was actually an attempt by the US to dismantle the kurdish project by making territory liberated from daesh open to non-YPG political control, even if it's kurdish soldiers doing the fighting. thus, for instance, the YPG is to not have any control of raqqa. (i can't remember which RT article stated this, but it's out there.)

#1156
I don't think I can tease out the interests in the YPG, mostly because Obama's foreign policy is either orthodox or "whatever lol".

The general consensus from what i can tell tho from the people i follow is that Assad is fine with things like dropping "Arab" from the name and some degree of federalization, so the YPG is allowed to exist because of their effectiveness and because there would probably be a Kurdish federal region of some sort post-war.

there's an interesting article i read here: https://tcf.org/content/report/survival-syrias-strategy/

Despite being a think tank most of the facts align with the Syrian and regional journalists I follow, so i'm willing to accept it.
#1157
if phil greaves is also right about YPG I'm going to be so mad
#1158
http://www.albawaba.com/news/assad-says-government-armed-kurdish-group-syria%E2%80%99s-north-778846

I'm so confused right now
#1159

your_not_aleksandr posted:

thirdplace posted:
that's just wrong, right? I know the Syria gov't/YPG ceasefire was under some stress, but it's still basically in place?
the West is trying to kick it down because stopping the Kurds from formalizing more is the only concession they might be able to ge tout of this whole shitshow.



What do the US and their allies stand to lose if the Kurds formalize more?

#1160

Belphegor posted:

What do the US and their allies stand to lose if the Kurds formalize more?



turkey