Gibbonstrength posted:

dont let up now that he's conceded the point. keep the boot on his neck until he quits forever and we are reduced back to single digit poster count

on the one hand i typed that long post before i saw a reply. on the other... stopping the conversation when someone "wins" is a jillion types of liberalism. like i understand there's an idea that this forum's strain of irony poisoning requires support of russian policy but it's maybe good to talk about the specifics anyway? i'm one of the inheritors of the departed posters mantle of kneejerk anti imperialist lines on here but syria and russia are still not in the same position concerning imperialism just because they're non-communist governments arrayed against u.s. policy in the same way that russia and the u.s. don't have the same relationship to imperialism just because they both have a lot of planes compared to syria.

colddays posted:

Let's not lose track of the fact that Russia is an imperialist force too. She supports Iran and Syria, but this is to further her own interests in the Middle East, and weaken the rival Amerikkkan influence. I see some people on the internet getting way too excited about Putin.

http://store.pslweb.org/Socialists-and-war-two-opposing-trends_p_14.html

colddays posted:

Let's not lose track of the fact that Russia is an imperialist force too. She supports Iran and Syria, but this is to further her own interests in the Middle East, and weaken the rival Amerikkkan influence. I see some people on the internet getting way too excited about Putin.

http://rogerannis.com/the-myth-of-russian-imperialism-in-defense-of-lenins-analyses/

HenryKrinkle posted:

that Russia & China are willing to support Venezuela and Cuba w/o demanding neoliberal reform is evidence enough that the expansion of their influence at the expense of US influence is a Good Thing.

this dude points out that the brics development bank isnt shaping up to be much of a counterpower to the imf

Red_Canadian posted:

i was making this big post about all the factions in syria and how anti-imperialist they are, but it got dumb around seven and arranging syria, hezbollah, and russia, so i'll just say the important thing to remember is that the kurds aren't a unitary force.
whilst the ones in power in iraq are american clients that had set up their own fief, the ones in syria and turkey are enemies of nato state turkey, not completely opposed to assad (seems most conflict is short-scaled flare ups) and while taking support from the us, that was mostly based on them being the only effective force against isis (america has to been seeing doing something against them after all the attacks). what's more, most of the support is airstrikes, not heavy weaponry, which means they don't trust them, or don't think they'll be able to control them after (similar to british support of the arabs during the first world war)..

this report just came out supposedly studying who the different factions are ... at a brief glance it seems to match with what is being reported recently in terms of battle developments and strength of numbers ... but i would like to see who they are talking about when they say 50% of the rebel militants are secular

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/status-of-the-syrian-rebellion-numbers-ideologies-and-prospects
http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/Syrian%20Armed%20Opposition%20Powerbrokers_0.pdf

for one thing the syrian kurds are quite closely allied with russia, russia insisted they be part of the 'peace' negotiations in europe this year against US wishes for example.

if i understand it as well most of the 2 mln kurds in syria fled genocides in iraq or turkey over the past few decades ... if thats true and the people they granted asylum to are now trying to secede with a huge chunk of the territory and the majority of the oil wealth with no popular mandate from the people there, it seems that the soft approach the syrian government takes to them is overly fair on the pyd, ypg and unfair on its own citizens.

i dont know if the 'opinions' ngos put out are useful indicators of anything but now that the Free Syrian Army (turk) is actively eliminating the YPG and landgrabbing northern syria, many of these orgs drumming up support for the 'revolution' the last 4 years using YPJ guerillas making peace signs as poster girls for clicktivism demanding bazookas for alqaeda will maybe need to stop hiding behing their skirts.

i called the ypg 'the kurdish regime' as a joke to troll panopticon a few weeks ago but i see that trots/jihadists (indistinguishable from each other on this topic) are now using the term while cheering on the turkish invasion

Panopticon posted:

pogfan1996 posted:

the communists who thought Stalin was the biggest problem

is that in reference to something specific

chickeon posted:

Panopticon posted:
pogfan1996 posted:
the communists who thought Stalin was the biggest problem
is that in reference to something specific

it's just wrong, he probably made that up "to troll" me, like all his other garbage ideas

Panopticon posted:

chickeon posted:

Panopticon posted:
pogfan1996 posted:
the communists who thought Stalin was the biggest problem
is that in reference to something specific

it's just wrong, he probably made that up "to troll" me, like all his other garbage ideas

there were several strategic errors on the part of the antifascist, anti-Stalin left that opposed the USSR in the 1930s and 1940s. the end result was a weakened anti fascist movement

this probably isnt the best thread to pursue this discussion though

pogfan1996 posted:

Panopticon posted:

chickeon posted:

Panopticon posted:
pogfan1996 posted:
the communists who thought Stalin was the biggest problem
is that in reference to something specific

it's just wrong, he probably made that up "to troll" me, like all his other garbage ideas

there were several strategic errors on the part of the antifascist, anti-Stalin left that opposed the USSR in the 1930s and 1940s. the end result was a weakened anti fascist movement

this probably isnt the best thread to pursue this discussion though

that (anti stalin) left wasnt communist tho, right?

pogfan1996 posted:

i am continually impressed at how the iso can make any article about Stalin. To be fair, they do make a great connection between the communists who thought Stalin was the biggest problem as germany was annexing territory and leftists today who claim that Russia and Iran are the real problem.

https://socialistworker.org/2016/11/01/the-western-left-and-the-syrian-war

i don't know anything about socialistworker, can someone explain to me why they seem to be supporting the west with overthrowing assad? you would think a socialist organization would be smart enough not to be lured into imperialist propaganda but...