Petrol posted:did somebody say witch house??
yes, me
Aspie_Muslim_Economist_ posted:Wifereport: people are telling my wife to "speak English" today, despite her perfect mid-western accent. This is going to be fantastic.
kill them
our paypals were frozen within hours and gofundme picked up our bailfund off some keyword - it needs to be screened first, could take 3 days.
we need to talk about how to organize when police mass tactics turn violent and how we can effectively secure fluid resources and many other things for the years to come.
Edited by Urbandale ()
Urbandale posted:just got done organizing bail for allies arrested AFTER our anti-trump event. one of them was beat unconscious, broken collarbone + 2 bruised ribs. NOT arrested, left to bleed on the ground for a half hour. 2 are facing various VERY bullshit charges.
our paypals were frozen within hours and gofundme picked up our bailfund off some keyword - it needs to be screened first, could take 3 days.
we need to talk about how to organize when police mass tactics turn violent and how we can effectively secure fluid resources and many other things for the years to come.
Soros-backed color revolution successfully averted thank you for your service American Berkut!
e: Not nice
Edited by swampman ()
Urbandale posted:and how we can effectively secure fluid resources and many other things for the years to come.
may i recommend attaching a few comrades to initiate outreach to dorkasaures_rex?
stegosaurus posted:heres an irl activity i participated in and then summarized http://bonnevillesocialist.com/article/rev-left-2016-elections/
Summing this experience up, Dee had their criticisms, saying that "I don't know how well it worked, I think we need more time to look back."
this part stood out to me. Dee seems intelligent and pragmatic but the party she represents clearly learns nothing at all. every election the same mistakes are made and everyone "learns" the same lessons about the malleability of the system and the inevitable betrayal of the liberals. I think it's awesome the event presented three different perspectives on leftists and elections but they all seem to suffer from the same delusions of grandeur and confusion about the spectacle of national elections actually mattering. I know you've complained in the past about the lack of local focus but it shocks me that I know nothing about Utah, the left there, its history and economic situation and I come out of this knowing as little as I did before. I would be much more interested in a discussion about building a movement for community control of police through elections, what communities should be the focus of action, and who stands in the way. Just as an example. We can still think about imperialism and healthcare and stuff but this discussion just seems so out of touch with the lived reality of the working class.
e: for example, it seems everyone relies on the media's stereotypes about the working class and Trump support. That no one can actually describe the working class of Utah, if they support Trump, what industries actually were affected by neoliberalism in what communities, and connections are being made by the left (the two examples the FRSO offers are in Chicago and Wisconsin and are media spectacles for liberals) shows these people can recite Trotsky but don't know anyone's name in the poor black neighborhood in the next district over.
ee: Also your interpretation of labor aristocracy and Clinton is weird but I'm sure you didn't want to grab the mike and just start yelling READ SETTLERS READ SETTLERS even though this is obviously what you should have done
Edited by babyhueypnewton ()
babyhueypnewton posted:I would be much more interested in a discussion about building a movement for community control of police through elections, what communities should be the focus of action, and who stands in the way.
whats the bold mean
Urbandale posted:babyhueypnewton posted:I would be much more interested in a discussion about building a movement for community control of police through elections, what communities should be the focus of action, and who stands in the way.
whats the bold mean
sorry I mean electing institutions like community boards of review that have the power to regulate the police and ensure through law they come from the community they are patrolling and other things.
babyhueypnewton posted:stegosaurus posted:heres an irl activity i participated in and then summarized http://bonnevillesocialist.com/article/rev-left-2016-elections/
Summing this experience up, Dee had their criticisms, saying that "I don't know how well it worked, I think we need more time to look back."
this part stood out to me. Dee seems intelligent and pragmatic but the party she represents clearly learns nothing at all. every election the same mistakes are made and everyone "learns" the same lessons about the malleability of the system and the inevitable betrayal of the liberals. I think it's awesome the event presented three different perspectives on leftists and elections but they all seem to suffer from the same delusions of grandeur and confusion about the spectacle of national elections actually mattering. I know you've complained in the past about the lack of local focus but it shocks me that I know nothing about Utah, the left there, its history and economic situation and I come out of this knowing as little as I did before. I would be much more interested in a discussion about building a movement for community control of police through elections, what communities should be the focus of action, and who stands in the way. Just as an example. We can still think about imperialism and healthcare and stuff but this discussion just seems so out of touch with the lived reality of the working class.
e: for example, it seems everyone relies on the media's stereotypes about the working class and Trump support. That no one can actually describe the working class of Utah, if they support Trump, what industries actually were affected by neoliberalism in what communities, and connections are being made by the left (the two examples the FRSO offers are in Chicago and Wisconsin and are media spectacles for liberals) shows these people can recite Trotsky but don't know anyone's name in the poor black neighborhood in the next district over.
ee: Also your interpretation of labor aristocracy and Clinton is weird but I'm sure you didn't want to grab the mike and just start yelling READ SETTLERS READ SETTLERS even though this is obviously what you should have done
thank you for responding, dee's pronouns are they/their btw.....
SA is weird and they've had terrible problems integrating or even maintaining any branch outside of their traditional service union stronghold locations like boston or seattle. i think the SA branch here has almost no connection to the party as a whole and could easily split and may do so in the near future.
about the utah working class i agree completely. i sort of framed the event and decided what questions i wanted people to answer and i didn't really demand that people be specific enough. the only defense i can offer is that the panel was about a national and not a local political event. i want to orient things more in that direction in the future but just putting this on and getting everything coordinated was enough of a challenge for me.
as for my own bit, yeah, i have no idea how to concretely integrate unequal exchange and the existence of imperialism with communist strategy in a place like utah. rhetorically putting american and haitian labor next to one another was an attempt at doing that but its obviously pretty clumsy.
stegosaurus posted:babyhueypnewton posted:stegosaurus posted:heres an irl activity i participated in and then summarized http://bonnevillesocialist.com/article/rev-left-2016-elections/
Summing this experience up, Dee had their criticisms, saying that "I don't know how well it worked, I think we need more time to look back."
this part stood out to me. Dee seems intelligent and pragmatic but the party she represents clearly learns nothing at all. every election the same mistakes are made and everyone "learns" the same lessons about the malleability of the system and the inevitable betrayal of the liberals. I think it's awesome the event presented three different perspectives on leftists and elections but they all seem to suffer from the same delusions of grandeur and confusion about the spectacle of national elections actually mattering. I know you've complained in the past about the lack of local focus but it shocks me that I know nothing about Utah, the left there, its history and economic situation and I come out of this knowing as little as I did before. I would be much more interested in a discussion about building a movement for community control of police through elections, what communities should be the focus of action, and who stands in the way. Just as an example. We can still think about imperialism and healthcare and stuff but this discussion just seems so out of touch with the lived reality of the working class.
e: for example, it seems everyone relies on the media's stereotypes about the working class and Trump support. That no one can actually describe the working class of Utah, if they support Trump, what industries actually were affected by neoliberalism in what communities, and connections are being made by the left (the two examples the FRSO offers are in Chicago and Wisconsin and are media spectacles for liberals) shows these people can recite Trotsky but don't know anyone's name in the poor black neighborhood in the next district over.
ee: Also your interpretation of labor aristocracy and Clinton is weird but I'm sure you didn't want to grab the mike and just start yelling READ SETTLERS READ SETTLERS even though this is obviously what you should have donethank you for responding, dee's pronouns are they/their btw.....
SA is weird and they've had terrible problems integrating or even maintaining any branch outside of their traditional service union stronghold locations like boston or seattle. i think the SA branch here has almost no connection to the party as a whole and could easily split and may do so in the near future.
about the utah working class i agree completely. i sort of framed the event and decided what questions i wanted people to answer and i didn't really demand that people be specific enough. the only defense i can offer is that the panel was about a national and not a local political event. i want to orient things more in that direction in the future but just putting this on and getting everything coordinated was enough of a challenge for me.
as for my own bit, yeah, i have no idea how to concretely integrate unequal exchange and the existence of imperialism with communist strategy in a place like utah. rhetorically putting american and haitian labor next to one another was an attempt at doing that but its obviously pretty clumsy.
I think if you do that people might not show up or will just say dumb things. But maybe I lack faith I dunno. Getfiscal is on to something when he complains about the left here tailing whatever the bourgeois care about on the day. It's even been reified into an entire worldview by Zizek and others, and while not everyone sleeps next to a portrait of Stalin basically all post-structuralism is just negative dialectics where you take something people enjoy like Star Wars and are like "actually this is bad and the problem is the capitalism of the republic" which is fun but dangerous when applied to real political movements.
In South Korea people were already protesting on the streets for weeks because the police killed some dude with a water cannon and were going to conduct the autopsy and obviously bury the cause of death. So this issue became something that the working class could concretely act around, feel empowered by when they succeeded in stopping the autopsy, and most importantly connect to the larger national struggle over labor laws and the fascist govt. This turned out to be pretty important because when the current park geun hye rasputin scandal broke there was already a general strike going on by the KCTU and the organization was already there for young people and liberals to come out, get handed a sign, and act like radicals for a day.
I think things like this exist in America, like the fight for 15 and the inevitable localized issues that become global if you protest enough like the fight over public space in occupy or police brutality. you just need an organization strong enough to elevate those into national issues that the working class sets the tone for, and since that doesn't exist and people don't know how to make it exist they pretend it does exist and fight at the level of national issues. Obviously the solution is to build that organization but the first problem is realizing it is a problem, something I have never seen outside of this forum.
babyhueypnewton posted:Obviously the solution is to build that organization but the first problem is realizing it is a problem, something I have never seen outside of this forum.
great post Huey but this part mostly makes me feel like you just need to get out and talking with people more. i've almost never been in a situation where I couldn't find someone radical to work with in accord over the problem of neutered contemporary organizing. there's definitely a need more people who get it, way more, but it's weird and self-sabotaging to act like the rhizzone is the only place where you'll find them.
shriekingviolet posted:babyhueypnewton posted:Obviously the solution is to build that organization but the first problem is realizing it is a problem, something I have never seen outside of this forum.
great post Huey but this part mostly makes me feel like you just need to get out and talking with people more. i've almost never been in a situation where I couldn't find someone radical to work with in accord over the problem of neutered contemporary organizing. there's definitely a need more people who get it, way more, but it's weird and self-sabotaging to act like the rhizzone is the only place where you'll find them.
I mentioned South Korea because I lived there for a while and just got back and am now in hellhole florida, probably next door to tpaine. so you saw into my soul
babyhueypnewton posted:Urbandale posted:babyhueypnewton posted:I would be much more interested in a discussion about building a movement for community control of police through elections, what communities should be the focus of action, and who stands in the way.
whats the bold mean
sorry I mean electing institutions like community boards of review that have the power to regulate the police and ensure through law they come from the community they are patrolling and other things.
Union del Bario and African Peoples Socialist Party have opposed review boards for over 40 years - they advocate for control, not review, and so do a lot of other nationalist + socialist groups
Edited by Urbandale ()
glomper_stomper posted:making my first jump into organizing proper and i'm doin it through fucking facebook..
welcome to organising in {this year}
He said he wants to name his first born son after Deray though :/ he has put up a Malcolm X poster in the kitchen much to the annoyance of our other housemates
