#41
Post rating: ~
i was reading the wiki on Gaddafi and this came up (about female victims):

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/book-review-gaddafis-harem-by-annick-cojean-trans-marjolijn-de-jager-8901967.html

is there an article debunking all of this somewhere? before he achieves Great Leader status i want to make sure i'm not unknowingly supporting a bad dude
#42
Post rating: +
Well, the authour of that piece unironically retweeted a huffington post article, which, for me, is enough to debunk their entire life
#43
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thats my jamiriya
#44
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Synergy posted:

i was reading the wiki on Gaddafi and this came up (about female victims):

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/book-review-gaddafis-harem-by-annick-cojean-trans-marjolijn-de-jager-8901967.html

is there an article debunking all of this somewhere? before he achieves Great Leader status i want to make sure i'm not unknowingly supporting a bad dude


Yeah can we get some FactCheckers on this? and while we're at it does anyone know if he was intersectional?

#45
[account deactivated]
#46
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +++++
can anyone confirm that all countries' foreign leaders are good in every way before i denounce the imperialist demolition of those countries' urban centers, murder and scattering of their people and replacement of every aspect of governance that provides even a modicum of stability with a daily ration of humiliation, trauma and chaos with no end in sight, all to suit the purpose of governments denounced even by their own citizens as the most powerful bought and paid for agents of global capital? could use some confirms here. confirm or deny.
#47
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i'm pretty sure it's possible to denounce imperialism and fact check foreign leaders at the same time, just sayin
#48
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I do so by yelling at my monitor "I HATE IMPERIALISM" while investigating leaders @ naughtyornot.com
#49
ive gender
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goodoughffi alive in chinar!!!
#50
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Synergy posted:

i'm pretty sure it's possible to denounce imperialism and fact check foreign leaders at the same time, just sayin


the problem is that the character and crimes of a single person are used in propaganda as the sole justification for devastating an entire country. engaging in discussion about them validates that bullshit narrative, it is falling into the trap of talking about whether or not x leader is A Bad Man when it really isn't about him. it's about whether or not the US is going to gleefully bomb some hospitals (they are.)

#51
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He is smiling down at us from Jannah now
#52
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shriekingviolet posted:

the problem is that the character and crimes of a single person are used in propaganda as the sole justification for devastating an entire country. engaging in discussion about them validates that bulls*** narrative, it is falling into the trap of talking about whether or not x leader is A Bad Man when it really isn't about him. it's about whether or not the US is going to gleefully bomb some hospitals (they are.)



but this forum isn't SA, we all know here (hopefully) that there is no justification for western involvement ever

i'm solely questioning whether Gaddafi deserves hero worship, there's a difference between supporting a government against imperialism and elevating a leader to Lenin-like status. the former is fine but if you're going to do the latter, make sure you know all the facts

#53
chickeon
Post rating: ~
he elevated himself to that status by being an extremely successful revolutionary, his only flaw was underestimating the viciousness and vindictiveness of the empire
#54
chickeon
Post rating: +
like it's not about what a bunch of western leftists think, the man's a goddamned hero to the people of Africa and for his material support for revolutionary movements across the globe
#55
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~

Synergy posted:

but this forum isn't SA,



you take that back this instant.

#56
Post rating: +

chickeon posted:

like it's not about what a bunch of western leftists think, the man's a godd***ed hero to the people of Africa and for his material support for revolutionary movements across the globe



i mean that's great and all but if someone says "Hey I read this book about Gaddafi's Harem, why do you support him?" i can't just say "because the rhizzone said so" or "you can't trust western media"

that doesn't mean anything to someone who isn't radicalized, i need sources of accurate information to present. when i doubted north korea, a couple of people posted articles about lying defectors. that kind of information is really useful and i save it for future reference

#57
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +

Synergy posted:

i mean that's great and all but if someone says "Hey I read this book about Gaddafi's Harem, why do you support him?" i can't just say "because the rhizzone said so" or "you can't trust western media"



you damn well can and will say both of those things.

#58
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: ~
then you'll send them a link to my post above and feel a deep and abiding peace within your heart.
#59
[account deactivated]
#60
UNUSUALY COOL
Post rating: +
knowledge of classic usernames is a power move. i wouldn't risk it unless you've successfully negged.
#61
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maybe don't have politics discussions with people reading oddly specific african porno books? not trying to kinkshame but it seems like a low priority demographic for revolutionary conversion
#62
Post rating: +

Synergy posted:

i'm pretty sure it's possible to denounce imperialism and fact check foreign leaders at the same time, just sayin



That shit is probably made up but even if you did the investigative work to disprove it (assuming that's possible since it's just a collection of anecdotes from anonymous women) there would always be the next lie to disprove. Like we already know parts are bullshit:

The torture, Cojean learned, went far beyond Gaddafi. He kept huge stockpiles of Viagra — not just for himself, but for his soldiers. "In Benghazi, Masrata, Zuwarah, and even in the mountains. They were everywhere that his militia had been stationed."



But I wouldn't be able to convince Brown Moses. The important part is changing the narrative to be about imperialism, anyone who's asking about gaddafi's rape rooms is not someone who is looking to be convinced. If someone is insistent just say it's imperialist propaganda based on flimsy evidence, that's correct 99% of the time without the need for concrete investigation. Like that thing about Mao eating feces, you could do a serious investigation to see if it's true or not but is that really the best use of your time?

#63
[account deactivated]
#64
Post rating: ~

babyhueypnewton posted:

Like that thing about Mao eating feces, you could do a serious investigation to see if it's true or not but is that really the best use of your time?


*thinks pruriently* Yes.

#65
Post rating: +
RIP




#66
hi
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Lykourgos posted:

Perhaps he should have donated more money to the Clinton Foundation


lol

#67
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Rip
#68
hi
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came back for the memories of good posts, leaving after re-visiting the cyberbullying of the poster Synergy.
#69
hi
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shriekingviolet posted:

the problem is that the character and crimes of a single person are used in propaganda as the sole justification for devastating an entire country.


so why bother debunking the White Helmets then? why bother refuting any atrocity propaganda?

#70
Post rating: +
The claims about the white helmets are more falsifiable and involve a lot more participants and victims. Ideally all atrocity propaganda would easily be refuted, but sometimes it's too much effort to refute claims that are irrelevant to larger issues being debated and are often made without evidence anyway.
#71
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I guess it's important to establish first that these things are lied about all the time and often literally come from American government propaganda though.
#72
[account deactivated]
#73
Post rating: ~
Never fear, your prayers for trustworthy fact checking have been answered: https://verrit.com/
#74
Post rating: +

HenryKrinkle posted:

so why bother debunking the White Helmets then? why bother refuting any atrocity propaganda?


idk man it's a matter of assessing each situation, trying to figure out what's in your power to affect and what the likely consequences of your actions will be. i don't have a perfect answer but my default reaction to this happening over and over in areas that the West has devastated is that opposing blood soaked white savior interventionism takes priority over arguing whether or not a given Man is Bad, and that it is often more viable in the short term to cut straight to "no invasion of western powers here is justified, period" as an argument than to waste your time quibbling over the endless specific details of which local leader's actions are fake or real or exaggerated, wrong or right or whatever the fuck when no one is going to believe you over an article in The New York Times anyways. is that really unreasonable?

i'm also genuinely confused as to how that is cyberbullying. i'd like this to be a place where (most) people feel welcome to post and would like to know how i fucked that up?

#75
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shriekingviolet posted:

i'd like this to be a place where (most) people feel welcome to post and would like to know how i fucked that up?


wait solved it, i fucked up by posting my shitty writing and opinions, which are bad and wrong. case closed

#76
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#77
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Awkward times in our so-called lives.
#78
Online
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Constantignoble posted:

brown moses killed vilerat


#79
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HenryKrinkle posted:

came back for the memories of good posts, leaving after re-visiting the cyberbullying of the poster Synergy.



#80
[account deactivated]