Impper posted:
who cares what those savages think, i want to know what gods done for me lately, and if possible, can he grant me eternal life, or at least, perhaps, a level of acceptance for me being dead, already

look inside ur heart

discipline posted:
I was having this discussion last night actually but w/r/t family and gender roles. We cannot eradicate these things without replacing them, yet we are told in society that we are left with a lack wherein people are free actors or something. This is not true. We are so much smarter than this. we know that people are compelled by forces outside of their control for just about everything. I don't see how anyone could think that "killing God" isn't anything but a really transparent attempt to immerse everyone in the hedonistic present and ramp up levels of consumption and atomization within society. Church was pretty much the last place in the west that people met as a community once a week (or more) to do stuff not related to consumer capitalism. Now they are zeroing in on family dinners and marriage, not as oppressive institutions but rather as places where we still meet to discuss our day. Now we are all on so many drugs with the radio on and the curtains drawn. Typing across oceans at each other in our dens, older than we should be to be single and alone in life. Welcome to the desert of the Real boys.

this is true and all but i find this line of argument to be really conciliatory to those forces, like its arguing for the empirical efficiency of religion and family, appealign to a board of directors at MoneyBux Inc.

discipline posted:

Impper posted:
i like my drugs, and, i've been in relationships, and being single is cool for now hahah

That's great for you (I guess) but we shouldn't look at your opinions or situation as empirical proof of the efficiency or success of a system that enslaves almost a billion people and seeks to dominate the entire planet right?

oh no, i fucking hate the system, i acknowledge its every evil, and though i'm a major benefactor i'm ready to acknowledge that my life is basically dogshit and empty. i'm just physically happy, contented, and coddled atm. my life is going okay on a personal level but it has nothing to do with the system; however, my personal happiness will control my approach to this sort of thing. neway the commies had amps ahhe

babyfinland posted:
it always cracks me up how atheists will refuse to debate in good faith and accept the premises of religions that they allegedly refute or criticize. for example aerdil complaint about evil in the world as if this world is posited as the sole and final domain where justice plays out, as if the entire afterlife can simply be pushed out of the equation of divine justice. its like removing wings from a plane to argue that only birds can fly.

meanwhile, wild fantasies about how to manipulate this world are totally game and they eagerly debate one another about how best to coerce people into performing according to their visionary genius. White People Having Fun

Your comment reminds me of something I've recently read by Adam Curtis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/congo/

Guevara travelled secretly with a small group of Cubans across Lake Tanganyika to the eastern Congo. He had a theory he called Foco which he had developed with a Parisian intellectual called Regis Debray. The theory said that tiny groups of revolutionaries could inspire the people of a country to a big insurrection. To do this the revolutionaries had to set a moral example and then the Congolese rebels around them would be transformed into "New Men"

But nothing went right. Che had given himself the codename "Tatu", which means three in Swahili. The Congo rebels thought this meant he was only third in command and didn't listen to anything he said. He in turn was shocked at how all the rebels believed in magic - Dawa - which would make them invincible to bullets. This meant they didn't bother to train and sat round drinking all the time.

Then Che led the rebels on an attack on a Hydro Electric plant. Some of the soldiers said they had heard an elephant and ran away. The rest closed their eyes and fired their guns randomly. Che was very depressed. Then they tried to attack an army barracks, but the Congo rebels had a superstitious fear of trenches so they wouldn't get into the holes they themselves had dug - and many were killed.

Faced by disaster Che gave in. He told the rebels he had found a witch doctor with more powerful Dawa.

Che Guevara somewhat naively didn't prepare for the religious beliefs of those who lived in the Congo but he tried to adapt to them rather than coerce them to his vision.

Groups people belong to aren't supposed to be vitally important to leftist belief, just their status as oppressed people. It's incredibly depressing when some of their beliefs are extreme and become an impediment to their own liberation but the left unfortunately is generally weak and incapable of helping a lot of the truly oppressed, including in much of the Muslim world.

aerdil posted:
if god doesnt exist u wasted time pursuing abstraction without material accomplishment. and if he exists anything is permitted including justified horrific evil.

your adoption of the position of the big Other's Will is perverse. this is as true for the muslim as it is for the Stalinist politician

thats cool

EmanuelaOrlandi posted:

aerdil posted:
if god doesnt exist u wasted time pursuing abstraction without material accomplishment. and if he exists anything is permitted including justified horrific evil.

your adoption of the position of the big Other's Will is perverse. this is as true for the muslim as it is for the Stalinist politician

Without material accomplishment? Believers have done so much more to combat American Imperialism and other evils in the recent decades then atheists ever have / will do.

Stalin

cleanhands posted:
This nonsense about whether God is real or not is kind of disappointing (who the fuck cares if God's real? It's God!) but I don't really feel a need for a grander guiding narrative than that provided by professional sports teams. Hell is other people, but God is your people.

i literally feel physically ill discussing God and religion in these terms lol

babyfinland posted:

cleanhands posted:
Sorry if I'm being blasphemous I guess (I'm not)

i didnt mean the way you were talking i meant in the way its been talked about in the thread generally.

yeah i knew impper and deadken were degenerates but i thought aerdil was cool? not any more

babyfinland posted:
this thread is grossing me out and i dont want to post anymore but i was told i should post this anyways so here:

devotion to God always wins because it is by definition a refusal to commit to the petty squabbling over worldly matters, and is singularly a commitment to justice and truth in principle rather than in the material. devotion to God may be corrupted by human weakness, and that will always be an issue, but idolatry already circumscribes life by that weakness, and rejects the very natural thing that humans were designed to do in this world, i.e. serve God and manifest his Attributes. idolatrous devotion to petty empirical manipulations manifests only the worst, and at best a transvestite mockery of righteousness. a life devoted to God will never result in failure, but a life devoted to worldly victories no matter how beautiful can only be measured by their actual result, which is passing and always, due to the nature of the world, proportionate to their concession to evil.

YEAH devotion to god results in peace and justice and a lack of petty squabbling ????????? what fucking world are you living in mate

Groulxsmith posted:

Meursault posted:

babyfinland posted:
this thread is grossing me out and i dont want to post anymore but i was told i should post this anyways so here:

devotion to God always wins because it is by definition a refusal to commit to the petty squabbling over worldly matters, and is singularly a commitment to justice and truth in principle rather than in the material. devotion to God may be corrupted by human weakness, and that will always be an issue, but idolatry already circumscribes life by that weakness, and rejects the very natural thing that humans were designed to do in this world, i.e. serve God and manifest his Attributes. idolatrous devotion to petty empirical manipulations manifests only the worst, and at best a transvestite mockery of righteousness. a life devoted to God will never result in failure, but a life devoted to worldly victories no matter how beautiful can only be measured by their actual result, which is passing and always, due to the nature of the world, proportionate to their concession to evil.

YEAH devotion to god results in peace and justice and a lack of petty squabbling ????????? what fucking world are you living in mate

yes the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of conflict sparked by religion. or maybe nationalism. or transphobia

Nice fucking strawman mate.