colddays posted:

Holy shit how do we fix this? Leftism seems to be gaining ground too slowly at the moment to be able to stop the entire world's destruction, and capitalism will obviously not work to fix this. Is this really the end of humanity?

Hopefully

glomper_stomper posted:

MarxUltor posted:

well your friends aren't wrong. capitalism will find a way to solve the problems of accumulating capital during a time of climate change. capitalism will "find a way" and will almost certainly invent a bunch of fucking nerd shit.

you're still gonna be starving and melt to death though because you won't be able to afford it, but maybe you'll just be destroyed by a super powered storm instead

i don't know dude. i think you're underestimating the militancy of labor in the most affected areas of our lifetime. i'm talking about the US south, the coastal regions, the middle east, latin america, and all that shit; if you're living in the midwest or the north, you're pretty much going to be fine until you're dead and everyone you know is dead.

also millions of people might die in the process of environmental dislocation, plague, imperialist war, class struggle, and diminishing means of production but this would be a return to the norm in terms of historical conditions.

the big man upstairs once said that nuclear weapons were paper tigers and, even if half of china was absolutely obliterated, the other half would carry on the struggle and help rebuild society. you could apply the same logic to all of humanity in this case, insofar as the planet isn't going to turn into giedi prime for another half a million years or something.

The changes are going to be gradual, incremental, and dispersed. You're not going to lose Pensacola overnight, no matter how much everyone might want to. You'll lose a portion of a neighborhood over a few years as the water creeps up their back yards and they disperse one by one.

Farms are going to fail on the frontiers of advancing desert and failing wells. Yields will decrease. Food prices will gradually increase.

Exxon will lose a refinery, they'll rebuild it inland. They'll get tax breaks and federal reconstruction money. They'll still pass the cost along to the consumers, the poor will pay more for gas, and everything else.

Persons displaced from the coasts will have had their property rendered worthless. Capital will build apartments though, so they can be rent-paying tenants for life instead of secure property owners.

Millions of people are going to die but it's not going to make the news. It'll be a poor family with malnutrition dying of disease in Mississippi. A few more people dying of heat stroke. A few people taken out by bacteria in the water. Snakebites as animals are pushed from inundating wetlands into human contact. Lots of disease though. Pharma's gonna have us all covered there, as long as you can pay. Probably lots of crime, as displaced people who have lost all their property and historical livelihoods tend to end up with few options otherwise.

Life will just get incrementally worse for the working class and incrementally more profitable for capitalism as each new facet of the climate change impact is uncovered.

MarxUltor posted:

glomper_stomper posted:

MarxUltor posted:

well your friends aren't wrong. capitalism will find a way to solve the problems of accumulating capital during a time of climate change. capitalism will "find a way" and will almost certainly invent a bunch of fucking nerd shit.

you're still gonna be starving and melt to death though because you won't be able to afford it, but maybe you'll just be destroyed by a super powered storm instead

i don't know dude. i think you're underestimating the militancy of labor in the most affected areas of our lifetime. i'm talking about the US south, the coastal regions, the middle east, latin america, and all that shit; if you're living in the midwest or the north, you're pretty much going to be fine until you're dead and everyone you know is dead.

also millions of people might die in the process of environmental dislocation, plague, imperialist war, class struggle, and diminishing means of production but this would be a return to the norm in terms of historical conditions.

the big man upstairs once said that nuclear weapons were paper tigers and, even if half of china was absolutely obliterated, the other half would carry on the struggle and help rebuild society. you could apply the same logic to all of humanity in this case, insofar as the planet isn't going to turn into giedi prime for another half a million years or something.

The changes are going to be gradual, incremental, and dispersed. You're not going to lose Pensacola overnight, no matter how much everyone might want to. You'll lose a portion of a neighborhood over a few years as the water creeps up their back yards and they disperse one by one.

Farms are going to fail on the frontiers of advancing desert and failing wells. Yields will decrease. Food prices will gradually increase.

Exxon will lose a refinery, they'll rebuild it inland. They'll get tax breaks and federal reconstruction money. They'll still pass the cost along to the consumers, the poor will pay more for gas, and everything else.

Persons displaced from the coasts will have had their property rendered worthless. Capital will build apartments though, so they can be rent-paying tenants for life instead of secure property owners.

Millions of people are going to die but it's not going to make the news. It'll be a poor family with malnutrition dying of disease in Mississippi. A few more people dying of heat stroke. A few people taken out by bacteria in the water. Snakebites as animals are pushed from inundating wetlands into human contact. Lots of disease though. Pharma's gonna have us all covered there, as long as you can pay. Probably lots of crime, as displaced people who have lost all their property and historical livelihoods tend to end up with few options otherwise.

Life will just get incrementally worse for the working class and incrementally more profitable for capitalism as each new facet of the climate change impact is uncovered.

This is all more or less true In My Opinion and its our Job to think about things in this context & what we can do, instead of all pretending we're panicking over nondescript graphs and satellite maps with red (the heat color) on them

People all over the world are now discussing whether a third world war will break out. On this question, too, we must be mentally prepared and do some analysis. We stand firmly for peace and against war. However, if the imperialists insist on unleashing another war, we should not be afraid of it. Our attitude on this question is the same as our attitude towards any disturbance: first, we are against it; second, we are not afraid of it. The First World War was followed by the birth of the Soviet Union with a population of 200 million. The Second World War was followed by the emergence of the socialist camp with a combined population of 900 million. If the imperialists insist on launching a third world war, it is certain that several hundred million more will turn to socialism, and then there will not be much room left on earth for the imperialists; it is also likely that the whole structure of imperialism will utterly collapse.

i.e. it will be terrible, we are against it, but we shouldnt be afraid of it. - the imperialists insist on this, climate change is and will happen under a capitalist system - but I firmly believe that capitalisms destruction of nature, of which climate change is part, is and will be one of the main drivers of revolution (which will be victorious).

Don't be scared.