for the evangelical christian, that bondage is sin and liberation comes from Jesus Christ.
For the marxist: the bondage is capitalist wage labor, it is exploitation, it is perpetual joblessness, it is constantly being at the threat of destitution and having no recourse. it is right to work states. it is neoliberalism.
for the communist, one must embrace marxist critical ideology to subvert to subvert the ruling ideology and set up ties with other members of the working class. likewise, with evangelical christianity, one must reach out with acts of kindness and love, to show by example what it is that christianity offers. nobody likes having somebody else come and tell them what to believe, telling them the their views are wrong , or approaching with the aim of converting. likewise, no-one likes being told that politically, that everything they believe is wrong, that they are living under an illusion or that they victims of exploitation.
for evangelical christians, the way to get the message out about the Lord Jesus Christ is to Love Thy Neighbor, to Love Thy Enemy, to treat negativity with kindness, to meet hatred with love, to meet stubbornness with understanding. It is through Christian ethics being APPLIED, and not simply preached, that one is able outreach the hearts and minds of thine brethren. THIS is the lesson that the Left needs today. This is why leftists create self-serving echo chambers, but are unable to convince their neighbors, friends, or even family members of the truth of their views.
there is no doubt that 20th century communist projects failed. in fact, they failed in catastrophic and horrific fashion, and should never be repeated.
one of the crucial aspects of 20th century totalitarian communism was rigid atheism. New Atheism one might say. It is time, I believe, for the Left today to see the radical emancipatory potential at the core of christianity, and harness the Power and Strength that lies in Christian ethics to soften hearts and change minds.
Drawing lines in the sand, and being stubborn, fighting with neighbors and friends will only make you an OutKast, and will only make the Left targets of further persecution. With every hateful act or aggressive action that the Left makes, the State is further justified in reacting by bolstering and strengthening a totalitarian response.
This is why I suggest that Christian Ethics and Communism must unite for the Left to be successful in the 21st Century.
But they don't sound like tools, and thus no one makes fun of them. they also don't pretend to be saying something relevatory when addressing comrades.
http://mccaine.org/2012/09/14/excursus-on-marxism-and-religion-ii-on-liberation-theology/
Maybe authors in the current like gustavo gutiérrez?
- address The Left as a monolithic entity
- presume that The Left is essentially a PR exercise concerned with converting liberals
- denounce The Left for scaring off liberals with certain (imagined/caricatured) behavior
- proclaim that instead The Left must adopt a terrible strategy and/or liberal political position
see also: HashtagWeAreTheLeft
The most glaring one from your posts is that you are content to dismiss the history of communism as "horrific failure", while not applying the same level of criticism to the history of evangelical christianity. Moreover, the reason you state for it's failure is its lack of christian ethics, yet the earthly manifestation of these christian ethics, by and large, is one that has worked hand in hand with imperialism and capitalism.
As mentioned by others, what you propose is not new; look up liberation theology. There are also some key differences in this approach, which might be useful in adding some theological depth to your synthesis of christianity and communism beyond "love thy neighbour". A good starting point is this rHizzonE effortpost on the topic --> http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/topic/3457/
The_Boourns_Identity posted:there is no doubt that 20th century communist projects failed. in fact, they failed in catastrophic and horrific fashion, and should never be repeated.
actually everyone knows they kicked fifty kinds of ass and were fucking badass and cool and achieved a whole lot; thats why the enemies of communism are so apeshit all of the time, and if anything the only failure of actually existing socialism is it didn't go hard enough RE: the purging of internal enemies
this is why I came here, y'all are helpful!
Liberation Theology; gustavo gutiérrez; check how i address the Left & be more critically honest about Really Existing Christianity, read more Rhizonne Effortposts
I am hungry for instruction; guidance is my toast, discipline is my garlic.
The_Boourns_Identity posted:Lots of really great feedback ITT,
this is why I came here, y'all are helpful!
Liberation Theology; gustavo gutiérrez; check how i address the Left & be more critically honest about Really Existing Christianity, read more Rhizonne Effortposts
I am hungry for instruction; guidance is my toast, discipline is my garlic.
ifAp
China ain't granting independence to Tibet, the US ain't giving back the country to the Indians and Marxism will never work in tandem with Christianity on a large scale. The end. (Indeed that's probably what MLK meant when he said that you can't be a Christian and a communist.)
Edited by walkinginonit ()
-Nonprofit status: Abuse it
-Sex abuse can be buried in cash (see #1)
-Feeling shitty about yourself as a substitute for real action
-Thousands of sects provide endless differentiating for all ages
-Waving literature at passersby
The_Boourns_Identity posted:check how i address the Left
No. Real talk, my advice is do not address The Left. it doesn't exist the way you think it does, and you really don't know enough to be doling out advice in the first place.
instead, if you genuinely want to learn, Lurk More. ask questions if you need to, but mostly lurk silently. you might also want to try joining an org if you havent already, but try to keep your mouth shut there most of the time too, and just follow the lead of others and try not to fuck anything up, until such time as you are no longer a noob. ganbatte, flanders-kun.
BadNewzKennels posted:Marxism will never work in tandem with Christianity on a large scale. The end. (Indeed that's probably what MLK meant when he said that you can't be a Christian and a communist.)
what the fuck is cuba. what the fuck is the ddr. what the fuck is the russian orthodox church in the ussr.
BadNewzKennels posted:Commie Flanders is too good for this site but the tenor of responses is correct that Christianity will not mix with any strain of communism that would be recognized as such from our vantage point in history, ever, as a quick glance (if such a thing is possible) at mccaine dot org should make clear.
China ain't granting independence to Tibet, the US ain't giving back the country to the Indians and Marxism will never work in tandem with Christianity on a large scale. The end. (Indeed that's probably what MLK meant when he said that you can't be a Christian and a communist.)
Perhaps then I shouldn't call myself communist but what should I call my political ideology that is grounded in a Marxist critique of capitalism and aims for the liberation and self/collective-ownership of means of production and products of labor of the working class? Simply put, I want to overcome capitalism and realize a system where workers may control their labor and the means of production.
Also I'm a Christian.
Suggestions?
Edited by The_Boourns_Identity ()
Petrol posted:The_Boourns_Identity posted:
check how i address the Left
No. Real talk, my advice is do not address The Left. it doesn't exist the way you think it does, and you really don't know enough to be doling out advice in the first place.
instead, if you genuinely want to learn, Lurk More. ask questions if you need to, but mostly lurk silently. you might also want to try joining an org if you havent already, but try to keep your mouth shut there most of the time too, and just follow the lead of others and try not to fuck anything up, until such time as you are no longer a noob. ganbatte, flanders-kun.
That's fair but I feel I renounced liberalism around 2010 and I've been reading leftist/Marxist/communist stuff since then and I've helped out at the workers defense fund and local socialist organizaxxtion where I used to live. Idk how much anything counts for anything though, to me I think it's just about having your heart in the right place and basic theoretical foundation
To put it simpler: capitalists who are basically moral-less will seek to use spirituality that is either moral-less or moral-vague. Cynical views of Buddhism or Zen, LaVeyan Satanism, allow people who are in power to say "This is allowed within my spiritual code, and if you seek to prevent me, you are violating my rights" and I think it is one of many blindspots that liberals have. I do not think it is acceptable to say "Oh ok, as long as you are actually a practicing LaVeyan we will not punish you."
Essentially, the abandonment of Christianity by the elite should be considered an opportunity, I feel.
Addendum: I mean, I see where Commie Ned Flanders has some good ideas, and I agree with them (sorry rhizzone) but he needs to write less like a crazy person.
The_Boourns_Identity posted:Perhaps then I shouldn't call myself communist but what should I call my political ideology that is grounded in a Marxist critique of capitalism and aims for the liberation and self/collective-ownership of means of production and products of labor of the working class? Simply put, I want to overcome capitalism and realize a system where workers may control their labor and the means of production.
Also I'm a Christian.
Suggestions?
Have lots of communist children and make them go to Catholic church so they become atheist