glomper_stomper posted:
heck yeah, fuck those sell-outs up, put the ice pick in em
swampman posted:The only part of your paragraph that is not true is the first sentence. Liberals quoting MLK on facebook do get beat by police sometimes, by mistake. Likewise, black bloc actions do occur, and term does not necessarily refer to violence, just organized disobedience of laws like, you need a permit to march, no flag burning in a school zone etc. Blocking the highway is a "black bloc" action. Now maybe bhpn meant actual keffiyeh-masked anarchists, who in many cases are also middle class day trippers stopping by on their way to yoga lessons; that would be a surprise since I don't tend to think of bhpn as an anarchist.
Sure it does happen accidentally, I just don't see any point in risking peoples lives to somehow engineer that accident. I know the diversity of work that falls under "black bloc," but there's always risk involved (especially when his stated context is deliberately to get people beat by cops???) and that risk is always much higher for the marginalized people present.
Having privileged (for lack of a better word) people around to deter and witness violence is an extremely useful tactic, but when violence does happen you can't count on them being the ones who receive it, and I question the strategic value of hoping for it. Liberals and white people have a peripheral awareness of the boundaries within which they are safe, they know that they can slink back into them to escape violence. If the politics of these theoretical beating recipients were so poor that you're hoping for a beating to enlighten them, they are more likely to permanently retreat from danger once exposed to it than to have some kind of revelatory awakening. If their politics are good enough that they're willing to risk violence as allies in action, what's the point of hoping they get injured? It's just weird wishful thinking. A pointless revenge fantasy.
babyhueypnewton posted:I think it's good when liberals quoting MLK on facebook get beat down by the police. I dunno if some black bloc tactics to provoke it are necessary, particularly when the protest involves black people who are gonna get beat anyway, but I think the Iraq war protests showed us that protests themselves do nothing and have been absorbed by the state into human rights propaganda.
thanks for validating the "do nothing but post agitprop on the internet" style of activism using ultraleft posturing. NEET comrades everywhere are eternally grateful.
c_man posted:swampman posted:The Black Panthers have visibly marched at BLM protests, and were visibly arrested and received open support, Idk if the current Panthers are supposed to be "reactionary."
are you talking about the old panthers or the New Black Panther Party which i've heard older panthers call an FBI front?
when our veterans fall on snitchjacketting instead of voicing political disagreements i stop listening to them. what did these people learn from cointelpro?
Edited by Urbandale ()
shriekingviolet posted:If their politics are good enough that they're willing to risk violence as allies in action, what's the point of hoping they get injured? It's just weird wishful thinking. A pointless revenge fantasy.
I wish outright for white people to be rounded up, redistributed as slaves and made to farm rice and everyone tells me I'm a good poster and person
Urbandale posted:when our veterans fall on snitchjacketting instead of voicing political disagreements i stop listening to them. what did these people learn from cointelpro?
that guy had his jaw broken dude
Edited by c_man ()
swampman posted:I wish outright for white people to be rounded up, redistributed as slaves and made to farm rice and everyone tells me I'm a good poster and person
so we're forming the VOluntary White Enslavement Party? i'll make the website
Thus, the newly formed ML-VWEP hereby denounces all of the above.
ilmdge posted:
if you put this scene into some 1984-esque movie youd be criticized for being too heavy-handed. look at all that fucking body armor
god this babe is hot. tonight my wife and i play fascist floating cop and hot black lady saint. before you get salty our roles are woke and genderflipped for maximum win and cred.
swampman posted:another angle is that police are allowing BLM to exist as a means of testing various approaches to protest control, with each city as a different treatment group, and using NBBP presence as a toggle between "peaceful" and "not peaceful" to practice conditioning protest behavior
This is more than likely true.
Simultaneously there is a very big investment from social media networks to contain the domestic crisis. Their strategies are informed through deep analysis of "arab spring" and occupy data and smaller scale experimentation during these times. These experiments were run not just by the networks, but also smaller teams of contractors which set up and coordinated hundreds of fake profiles to create real-world action during these events. Important to note that the access to the data is still asymmetrical, the contractors that did these experiments have their own data but so does Twitter etc.
The interesting part here is that while these actors have some level of collusion they also act from very different conceptions of power. The State through monopoly of violence and the tech companies through monopoly of networks, a cybernetic concept of management of information flows. Hard vs soft power.
This fundamental difference has been playing out on many different levels, including public perception such as in response to Snowden leak; which highlighted state surveillance apparatus but never managed to taint tech companies despite the fact their capabilities are orders of magnitude above those of the state.
Tech companies media strategy is obviously concerned with drawing a firm line. FBI vs Apple case was an obvious example. Also recently Twitter's crisis data analytics subsidiary Dataminr terminated it's contract with US intelligence stating "optics" although still has an ongoing contract with DHS. This is also obvious with Twitter's guerrilla sponsorship of BLM through DeRay, etc.
As the arms race continues between tech and state it's still not obvious where this will come to a head, although the virtual substrate through which the movement is expanding effectively arms tech companies with a real-world botnet.
Gssh posted:Dataminr
i thought this was a joke at first
xipe posted:hippie getting brutalised by cops if thats your thing
Spoiler!
@babyhueypnewton
there's not much light at all between these actors that i can tell when it comes to leadership, tactics or strategy as far as i can see them and that's not surprising because the democrats are in power and the "tech" sector forms one of their major campaign funding bases.
Gssh posted:The interesting part here is that while these actors have some level of collusion they also act from very different conceptions of power. The State through monopoly of violence and the tech companies through monopoly of networks, a cybernetic concept of management of information flows. Hard vs soft power.
who will play the holy spirit in this hip reimagining of the christian doctrine of the trinity
the dispute was instead over the government demanding trapdoors so they wouldn't have to go through these tech companies to get information, which once in place would diminish the influence those companies had over the state, and especially the law-enforcing executive branch, that they depend upon to assist them with tax breaks, denunciations and sanctions in response to foreign court decisions against them, etc. and then it turned out that either the state didn't need those trapdoors to succeed at stealing that information and they made it publicly known that they didn't need them, or they were no longer interested in having tantrums in the media about it for other reasons so they lied and said, we don't need that anymore.
Urbandale posted:i dont think this is really responsive to my point do you?
i think its weird that you're giving the benefit of the doubt to people who sent this guy to the hospital, and appear to think that this is natural behavior for a group that is in no way infiltrated and who people should be happy to support
Edited by ilmdge ()
cars posted:many self-trained natural historians from the southern united states in the 18th and 19th centuries argued that the separate origin of black people and white people as species could be supported by the diminished ability of black people to feel physical or emotional pain inflicted upon them. food for thought as we're reexamining our assumptions here.
sounds like a good topic to suggest to malcolm gladwell's new #1 podcast revisionist history