shriekingviolet posted:babyhueypnewton posted:I think it's good when liberals quoting MLK on facebook get beat down by the police. I dunno if some black bloc tactics to provoke it are necessary, particularly when the protest involves black people who are gonna get beat anyway, but I think the Iraq war protests showed us that protests themselves do nothing and have been absorbed by the state into human rights propaganda.
i was waiting for you to come in with some insane counterproductive shallow garbage, you really worked up the suspense by wanking over other people playing videogames for you first. A+ huey
protests can be progressive or reactionary. fetishizing protests themselves is what allows western liberals to support reactionary movements in Venezuela, Syria, Cuba, Brazil, China, etc since they have the appearance of popular support and all the trappings of 'youthful rebellion.' this is an obvious point but we rarely apply it to ourselves. is BLM progressive or reactionary? what is BLM?
it seems to me that BLM is a very narrow brand that is used by different groups. the DeRay Mckesson and Brittany Packnett 'Campaign Zero' form is clearly reactionary, nothing more than the state renegotiating a new black bourgeoisie since the Sharptons and Jacksons of the world are too old and have too much baggage. on the other hand, the Baltimore and Ferguson BLM is clearly progressive since it forces liberals to defend revolutionary action in the same way the SNCC was able to drag liberals who felt loyalty to the movement into radicalism. the big-tent street protests could be progressive for the reasons you say. I would argue they are the site of struggle between the two mentioned forces and the job of radicals is to push them in that direction and undermine the liberal leaders by any means necessary, even if it means shedding the 'blue lives matter too' people.
babyhueypnewton posted:even if it means shedding the 'blue lives matter too' people.
what do you mean "even", those people should be pushed under an anti-personnel vehicle's tires
drwhat posted:babyhueypnewton posted:even if it means shedding the 'blue lives matter too' people.
what do you mean "even", those people should be pushed under an anti-personnel vehicle's tires
they're good cannon fodder but true
tpaine posted:like, i don't know, being even remotely aware of current events?
You're (remotely) aware of current events, what are you doing instead? besides attempting to pickle your teeth
if you put this scene into some 1984-esque movie youd be criticized for being too heavy-handed. look at all that fucking body armor
The core of the protests are black people around 20 years old. They have over 50% real unemployment and a third of them are in prison or jail. They are politically educated and have a wide range of formal education as many were able to fall into the debt trap of college, but even the "uneducated" ones are politically educated, not to the degree that they are going to join a Communist org, but to the degree that they know the only way they will get relief is through mass organization.
Obviously this changes city to city based on the conciliatory efforts made by the police. Some BLM protest movements are going to be stalled by a wave of police "solidarity" with their movement, as in Oklahoma City, but the police are making promises they can't keep as their function is anti-democratic.
In other cities, protesters are fielding continually larger protests that obviously scare police, and they are seeing the need to become more organized. Baton Rouge is going to force the government to either get a grip on its police or sanction their behavior, and either will be an impetus to larger protests with greater degrees of organization and political awareness. The Black Panthers have visibly marched at BLM protests, and were visibly arrested and received open support, Idk if the current Panthers are supposed to be "reactionary."
Considering that the police are trying to define BLM as a straight up terrorist organization, I think all of this makes the movement worthy of attention and respect.
swampman posted:It's fine to say that these protests are reactionary to the degree that they seek police reform instead of dissolution.
The core of the protests are black people around 20 years old. They have over 50% real unemployment and a third of them are in prison or jail. They are politically educated and have a wide range of formal education as many were able to fall into the debt trap of college, but even the "uneducated" ones are politically educated, not to the degree that they are going to join a Communist org, but to the degree that they know the only way they will get relief is through mass organization.
Obviously this changes city to city based on the conciliatory efforts made by the police. Some BLM protest movements are going to be stalled by a wave of police "solidarity" with their movement, as in Oklahoma City, but the police are making promises they can't keep as their function is anti-democratic.
In other cities, protesters are fielding continually larger protests that obviously scare police, and they are seeing the need to become more organized. Baton Rouge is going to force the government to either get a grip on its police or sanction their behavior, and either will be an impetus to larger protests with greater degrees of organization and political awareness. The Black Panthers have visibly marched at BLM protests, and were visibly arrested and received open support, Idk if the current Panthers are supposed to be "reactionary."
Considering that the police are trying to define BLM as a straight up terrorist organization, I think all of this makes the movement worthy of attention and respect.
plus they got babes with telekensis auras. fuckin xmen shit
swampman posted:Baton Rouge is going to force the government to either get a grip on its police or sanction their behavior, and either will be an impetus to larger protests with greater degrees of organization and political awareness.
This Time It's Different...
Why do you say that? Black People have been politely asking the police to stop murdering them for 60+ years and have been live streaming police murdering them all around the country for like 2 years straight and life appears to be going on. Did the cops finally shoot Black Jesus, will he be back to wreck some shit in a few days?
Sure, every time the cops murder another black person the movement to shout at cops asking them to please stop murdering all of the black people gets a bit bigger but there seems to be a missing step in the plan.
MarxUltor posted:swampman posted:Baton Rouge is going to force the government to either get a grip on its police or sanction their behavior, and either will be an impetus to larger protests with greater degrees of organization and political awareness.
This Time It's Different...
Why do you say that? Black People have been politely asking the police to stop murdering them for 60+ years and have been live streaming police murdering them all around the country for like 2 years straight and life appears to be going on. Did the cops finally shoot Black Jesus, will he be back to wreck some shit in a few days?
Sure, every time the cops murder another black person the movement to shout at cops asking them to please stop murdering all of the black people gets a bit bigger but there seems to be a missing step in the plan.
Hurf de durf it's ultra time (and by ultra i mean ultra nerd)
MarxUltor posted:This Time It's Different...
Why do you say that? Black People have been politely asking the police to stop murdering them for 60+ years and have been live streaming police murdering them all around the country for like 2 years straight and life appears to be going on. Did the cops finally shoot Black Jesus, will he be back to wreck some shit in a few days?
Sure, every time the cops murder another black person the movement to shout at cops asking them to please stop murdering all of the black people gets a bit bigger but there seems to be a missing step in the plan.
I mean that they will need to get a grip on Baton Rouge Police Department's response to peaceful protesting, or sanction it. I think cops are going to keep murdering people for a while. There's also a dynamic where cops are not only massing in shows of force and creating obvious guerrilla targets as usual, they are more trained in anti-guerrilla warfare so they tend to make tactically insane - and ultimately cost-inefficient and visually repugnant - decisions premised on the existence of guerillas. And they can't endlessly arrest and release American reporters yet maintain a hold on the propaganda.
swampman posted:The Black Panthers have visibly marched at BLM protests, and were visibly arrested and received open support, Idk if the current Panthers are supposed to be "reactionary."
are you talking about the old panthers or the New Black Panther Party which i've heard older panthers call an FBI front?
ilmdge posted:If the liberal media tries to demonize them, i personally will call out the medias white privilege
i don't know invoking white privilege would help elect a DNC homunculus or sell a consumer product so it's doubtful they'd use it
Petrol posted:I appreciate the effort terry, but advocacy for black lives is wasted on these socially underdeveloped appreciators of japanimation
I think some people who read tHE r H i z z o n E are interested in something other than incoherent nihilist dadthoughts and videos of children's toys
MarxUltor posted:This Time It's Different...
Why do you say that? Black People have been politely asking the police to stop murdering them for 60+ years and have been live streaming police murdering them all around the country for like 2 years straight and life appears to be going on. Did the cops finally shoot Black Jesus, will he be back to wreck some shit in a few days?
Sure, every time the cops murder another black person the movement to shout at cops asking them to please stop murdering all of the black people gets a bit bigger but there seems to be a missing step in the plan.
there's been a pretty clear escalation in the level of organization, national coordination, and international solidarity in the past few years compared to the desolation of the post-Panthers period. plus a key shift in the discourse from merely protesting the fact that the police are racist thugs to confronting the structural reasons why the police are racist thugs, and a recognition of the need for anti-imperialist solidarity. there's still a lot of work to be done on creating a cohesive whole with unified demands (explicitly rejecting collaborationists, etc) but that too is happening as we speak, it's pretty clear that radicalization is increasing in most cities if you're at events and speaking with organizers. if communists want BLM to be more communist then they need to get out there work with them, not stay home and pout.
a marxist understanding of history doesn't say "this time it's different" or "this time it's not different" as if events are all discrete units with no causal relationship to each other. a successful movement requires years of escalating protest, agitation and partisanship. the october revolution wasn't a sudden rapturous descent of Marxist Jesus on a magical sunbeam, it was the culmination of decades of unrest and continuous work by diverse political forces, the bolsheviks only gaining a leading role near the end. even if you don't think the situation is ripe for revolution or whatever marxists should always be working with the people, building a base of recognition and support. otherwise when the time does come for decisive action you're gonna have nothing. if you're not gonna even bother to show up in the first place then failure is certain.
tpaine posted:*founds BLM-ML*
black Lenin's massive mandingo log
swampman posted:I think some people who read tHE r H i z z o n E are interested in something other than incoherent nihilist dadthoughts and videos of children's toys
at least the incoherent nihilism comes from a place of frustrated compassion. i prefer it to reading a third world sex tourist smugly cheerleading police brutality.
c_man posted:swampman posted:The Black Panthers have visibly marched at BLM protests, and were visibly arrested and received open support, Idk if the current Panthers are supposed to be "reactionary."
are you talking about the old panthers or the New Black Panther Party which i've heard older panthers call an FBI front?
They were the NBBP, I suppose I'd want to know what the old panthers would have done differently before calling them provocateurs in Baton Rouge.
babyhueypnewton posted:I think it's good when liberals quoting MLK on facebook get beat down by the police. I dunno if some black bloc tactics to provoke it are necessary, particularly when the protest involves black people who are gonna get beat anyway,
It's not ever liberals quoting MLK on facebook who get beat by police. White platitude slingers don't show up to protests, and when they do they hang out in recognizable safe zones and leave when they get nervous. Police have a strategic understanding backing their suppression tactics, they know better than to kettle middle class day trippers stopping by on their way to yoga lessons. Their violence is always going to target marginalized people who are considered acceptable/excusable targets for violence by the state and the media, this is not very difficult to understand.
Suggesting that black bloc actions could provoke police into accidentally attacking liberal bystanders when there are plenty of young black men around for them to hospitalize is an absurd fantasy, and suggesting that people should risk their lives pursuing such a pointless and ridiculous farce is monstrously callous. It's disgusting.
shriekingviolet posted:It's not ever liberals quoting MLK on facebook who get beat by police. White platitude slingers don't show up to protests, and when they do they hang out in recognizable safe zones and leave when they get nervous. Police have a strategic understanding backing their suppression tactics, they know better than to kettle middle class day trippers stopping by on their way to yoga lessons. Their violence is always going to target marginalized people who are considered acceptable/excusable targets for violence by the state and the media, this is not very difficult to understand.
The only part of your paragraph that is not true is the first sentence. Liberals quoting MLK on facebook do get beat by police sometimes, by mistake. Likewise, black bloc actions do occur, and term does not necessarily refer to violence, just organized disobedience of laws like, you need a permit to march, no flag burning in a school zone etc. Blocking the highway is a "black bloc" action. Now maybe bhpn meant actual keffiyeh-masked anarchists, who in many cases are also middle class day trippers stopping by on their way to yoga lessons; that would be a surprise since I don't tend to think of bhpn as an anarchist.
swampman posted:They were the NBBP, I suppose I'd want to know what the old panthers would have done differently before calling them provocateurs in Baton Rouge.
idk anything about what they were up to in baton rouge but the BAR has a few pieces about how much they suck, so idk