DialecticUser
DialecticUser
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I've been dealing with a lot of Black nationalists lately, and I've been thinking about how there is a sort of anti-establishment Black preacher or imam tradition which can make use the literal bully pulpit to rile up a lot of working class Black people about awful state of the world.
I'm starting to wish I had become a minister instead of majoring in the liberal arts bullshit I did major in, because then I could be sneaking the science of Marxism-Leninism into sermons using coded language and using my church as a meeting space for local progressives. Why don't white leftists in the US exploit religion for their own ends instead of keeping it arm's length?
I'm starting to wish I had become a minister instead of majoring in the liberal arts bullshit I did major in, because then I could be sneaking the science of Marxism-Leninism into sermons using coded language and using my church as a meeting space for local progressives. Why don't white leftists in the US exploit religion for their own ends instead of keeping it arm's length?
Edited by DialecticUser ()
le_nelson_mandela_face
le_nelson_mandela_face
"Jpg." - Hank Hill
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http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/goldman413.htm
(...)
"Think not that I come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."
Precisely. Christ was a reformer, ever ready to patch up, to fulfill, to carry on the old order of things; never to destroy and rebuild. That may account for the fellow-feeling all reformers have for him.
Indeed, the whole history of the State, Capitalism, and the Church proves that they have perpetuated themselves because of the idea "I come not to destroy the law." This is the key to authority and oppression. Naturally so, for did not Christ praise poverty as a virtue; did he not propagate non-resistance to evil? Why should not poverty and evil continue to rule the world?
Much as I am opposed to every religion, much as I think them an imposition upon, and crime against, reason and progress, I yet feel that no other religion had done so much harm or has helped so much in the enslavement of man as the religion of Christ.
Witness Christ before his accusers. What lack of dignity, what lack of faith in himself and in his own ideas! So weak and helpless was this "Savior of Men" that he must needs the whole human family to pay for him, unto all eternity, because he "hath died for them." Redemption through the Cross is worse than damnation, because of the terrible burden it imposes upon humanity, because of the effect it has on the human soul, fettering and paralyzing it with the weight of the burden exacted through the death of Christ.
Thousands of martyrs have perished, yet few, if any, of them have proved so helpless as the great Christian God. Thousands have gone to their death with greater fortitude, with more courage, with deeper faith in their ideas than the Nazarene. Nor did they expect eternal gratitude from their fellow-men because of what they endured for them.
Compared with Socrates and Bruno, with the great martyrs of Russia, with the Chicago Anarchists, Francisco Ferrer, and unnumbered others, Christ cuts a poor figure indeed. Compared with the delicate, frail Spiridonova who underwent the most terrible tortures, the most horrible indignities, without losing faith in herself or her cause, Jesus is a veritable nonentity. They stood their ground and faced their executioners with unflinching determination, and though they, too, died for the people, they asked nothing in return for their great sacrifice.
Verily, we need redemption from the slavery, the deadening weakness, and humiliating dependency of Christian morality.
The teachings of Christ and of his followers have failed because they lacked the vitality to lift the burdens from the shoulders of the race; they have failed because the very essence of that doctrine is contrary to the spirit of life, exposed to the manifestations of nature, to the strength and beauty of passion.
Never can Christianity, under whatever mask it may appear -- be it New Liberalism, Spiritualism, Christian Science, New Thought, or a thousand and one other forms of hysteria and neurasthenia -- bring us relief from the terrible pressure of conditions, the weight of poverty, the horrors of our iniquitous system. Christianity is the conspiracy of ignorance against reason, of darkness against light, of submission and slavery against independence and freedom; of the denial of strength and beauty, against the affirmation of the joy and glory of life.
(...)
"Think not that I come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."
Precisely. Christ was a reformer, ever ready to patch up, to fulfill, to carry on the old order of things; never to destroy and rebuild. That may account for the fellow-feeling all reformers have for him.
Indeed, the whole history of the State, Capitalism, and the Church proves that they have perpetuated themselves because of the idea "I come not to destroy the law." This is the key to authority and oppression. Naturally so, for did not Christ praise poverty as a virtue; did he not propagate non-resistance to evil? Why should not poverty and evil continue to rule the world?
Much as I am opposed to every religion, much as I think them an imposition upon, and crime against, reason and progress, I yet feel that no other religion had done so much harm or has helped so much in the enslavement of man as the religion of Christ.
Witness Christ before his accusers. What lack of dignity, what lack of faith in himself and in his own ideas! So weak and helpless was this "Savior of Men" that he must needs the whole human family to pay for him, unto all eternity, because he "hath died for them." Redemption through the Cross is worse than damnation, because of the terrible burden it imposes upon humanity, because of the effect it has on the human soul, fettering and paralyzing it with the weight of the burden exacted through the death of Christ.
Thousands of martyrs have perished, yet few, if any, of them have proved so helpless as the great Christian God. Thousands have gone to their death with greater fortitude, with more courage, with deeper faith in their ideas than the Nazarene. Nor did they expect eternal gratitude from their fellow-men because of what they endured for them.
Compared with Socrates and Bruno, with the great martyrs of Russia, with the Chicago Anarchists, Francisco Ferrer, and unnumbered others, Christ cuts a poor figure indeed. Compared with the delicate, frail Spiridonova who underwent the most terrible tortures, the most horrible indignities, without losing faith in herself or her cause, Jesus is a veritable nonentity. They stood their ground and faced their executioners with unflinching determination, and though they, too, died for the people, they asked nothing in return for their great sacrifice.
Verily, we need redemption from the slavery, the deadening weakness, and humiliating dependency of Christian morality.
The teachings of Christ and of his followers have failed because they lacked the vitality to lift the burdens from the shoulders of the race; they have failed because the very essence of that doctrine is contrary to the spirit of life, exposed to the manifestations of nature, to the strength and beauty of passion.
Never can Christianity, under whatever mask it may appear -- be it New Liberalism, Spiritualism, Christian Science, New Thought, or a thousand and one other forms of hysteria and neurasthenia -- bring us relief from the terrible pressure of conditions, the weight of poverty, the horrors of our iniquitous system. Christianity is the conspiracy of ignorance against reason, of darkness against light, of submission and slavery against independence and freedom; of the denial of strength and beauty, against the affirmation of the joy and glory of life.
DialecticUser
DialecticUser
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Nice positivism and confusion of the form of struggle with the aim of struggle. I never said I thought Christianity would save anyone. I said churches are a good building to be in charge of, and a place where a lot of poor people go.
c_man
c_man
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good luck. perhaps one day you will be the next jeremiah wright, and be able to tell the future head hitler in charge "god damb america"
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DialecticUser
DialecticUser
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c_man posted:good luck. perhaps one day you will be the next jeremiah wright, and be able to tell the future head hitler in charge "god damb america"
Too late for me, career-wise, but I think if we had some Jeremiah Wrights who were linked up with socialists and loaned out the church as a meeting space, and steered the faithful towards the socialists through commentary on current events and co-sponsored events... Might be good.
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DialecticUser
DialecticUser
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tpaine posted:what marxism needs is more principles based on hoodoo
Marxism doesn't need anything from outside. Everything outside needs more Marxism. Every space should have Marxists there, trying to turn everyone into Marxists.
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DialecticUser
DialecticUser
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roseweird posted:http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/user/DialecticUser/why does all your activity show up as activity by goatstein
I don't know what you mean, and I was wondering why you kept linking to my user page.
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DialecticUser
DialecticUser
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roseweird posted:DialecticUser posted:I don't know what you mean, and I was wondering why you kept linking to my user page.
how are your dealings with black nationalists going
A mixed bag, like you might expect. A lot of nonsense and confused ideas, a lot of righteous anger directed at the system.
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le_nelson_mandela_face
le_nelson_mandela_face
"Jpg." - Hank Hill
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There's a lot of sick people at the psychic surgeon's but they're probably not the right audience to point out the statistical efficacy of chemotherapy
EmanuelaBrolandi
EmanuelaBrolandi
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DialecticUser posted:I've been dealing with a lot of Black nationalists lately
Catchphrase
EmanuelaBrolandi
EmanuelaBrolandi
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"dealing with" as in investigating them in your capacity as a law enforcement agent?
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Scrree
Scrree
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lets not insult the new guy for poor word usage, whitey.
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DialecticUser posted:Why don't white leftists in the US exploit religion for their own ends instead of keeping it arm's length?
because you touch yourself at night
EmanuelaBrolandi
EmanuelaBrolandi
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But also god exists
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the real answer OP is that there are plenty of white religious leftists & some of them post here.
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roseweird posted:http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/user/DialecticUser/why does all your activity show up as activity by goatstein
oh let him have his fun, i want all my alts back too
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NO YOU
NicoNicoNihilist
NicoNicoNihilist
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Preach Liberation Theology and get kicked out of the church like Leonardo Boff or get horribly tortured like Frei Tito
Panopticon
Panopticon
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DialecticUser posted:Why don't white leftists in the US exploit religion for their own ends instead of keeping it arm's length?
because there is no god and truth is important
Panopticon
Panopticon
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roseweird posted:http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/user/DialecticUser/why does all your activity show up as activity by goatstein
posting pals bug?
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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oh weird yeah that's just a bug. they're not an alt. well, probably not anyway, who really ever knows
Edited by drwhat ()
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Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia
Flying_horse_in_saudi_arabia
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Dont forget the child rape. Big in the white churches also. Huge
goodposthaver
goodposthaver
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when i become a priest at the SSPX (or V) seminary dow n the street im going to preach Marxism-Leninism in the language that the traditional catholic working class can understand.
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walkinginonit
walkinginonit
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As someone who went to an Evangelical Church all his childhood, I can say from my own experience that White Protestant churches are fundamentally reactionary.
My church was in an old Northeast town. During the Bush administration, one of the high points of protestant political mobilization, members in the Church took pride that the sermons weren't "politicized" and were more or less just about the gospels. This may have been because the congregation was already thoroughly reactionary (Creationist, homophobic, "anti-terrorist") and the reactionary politics of the community was taken as a given. There really was no need to harp on topics that everyone was already on the same page about. He might as well preach a sermon about how "Water is wet."
One time, as a kid, I came in and I noticed that a bunch of adults were signing a piece of paper. I asked a woman what it was for, and she had said that it was a petition to ensure that two men couldn't get married. "Which of course, is just wrong," as if it were a simple statement of fact. I had never heard my pastor talk about homosexuality, homophobia was just taken as a given.
A lot of time was spent trying to convince kids of two things however :
1) You, as a 9 year old, have to come to terms that you are a sinner and are deserving to go to hell unless you accept Jesus Christ.
2). Creationism is true. "Darwinism" is basically a conspiracy taught by bitter, godless liberals.
These two things alienate a child, and the congregation, from the rest of society. It makes a person, from a very young age, actually fearful of the world outside of the churches' reactionary culture. Its a way of instilling a sense of white victimhood early on.
As an addendum, I remember two additional details about the community. One, it was very prideful of its missionary programs in Africa and Latin America, which they paternalistically saw these people in particular need of saving (especially Third World Catholics.) And two, despite being north of the Mason-Dixon this town had a one of the largest Klan memberships in the state, go figure.
A lot of white churches are pretty fucking reactionary, and I wouldn't waste my time.
My church was in an old Northeast town. During the Bush administration, one of the high points of protestant political mobilization, members in the Church took pride that the sermons weren't "politicized" and were more or less just about the gospels. This may have been because the congregation was already thoroughly reactionary (Creationist, homophobic, "anti-terrorist") and the reactionary politics of the community was taken as a given. There really was no need to harp on topics that everyone was already on the same page about. He might as well preach a sermon about how "Water is wet."
One time, as a kid, I came in and I noticed that a bunch of adults were signing a piece of paper. I asked a woman what it was for, and she had said that it was a petition to ensure that two men couldn't get married. "Which of course, is just wrong," as if it were a simple statement of fact. I had never heard my pastor talk about homosexuality, homophobia was just taken as a given.
A lot of time was spent trying to convince kids of two things however :
1) You, as a 9 year old, have to come to terms that you are a sinner and are deserving to go to hell unless you accept Jesus Christ.
2). Creationism is true. "Darwinism" is basically a conspiracy taught by bitter, godless liberals.
These two things alienate a child, and the congregation, from the rest of society. It makes a person, from a very young age, actually fearful of the world outside of the churches' reactionary culture. Its a way of instilling a sense of white victimhood early on.
As an addendum, I remember two additional details about the community. One, it was very prideful of its missionary programs in Africa and Latin America, which they paternalistically saw these people in particular need of saving (especially Third World Catholics.) And two, despite being north of the Mason-Dixon this town had a one of the largest Klan memberships in the state, go figure.
A lot of white churches are pretty fucking reactionary, and I wouldn't waste my time.
Edited by walkinginonit ()
drwhat
drwhat
mt.real
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i once found myself possessionless and ID-less on the outskirts of Dallas and i found that the everyday working-class probably-not-very-well-off people there, white and black, were friendly and helpful. and did a little bit of talking about Jesus but that was ok.