le_nelson_mandela_face posted:white supremacists should be scandalized that muslims are so much better at killing people than they are
in a way they are, there's a militant undercurrent to the discussions in a lot of white supremacist forums of "why aren't we doing this"
this does not bode well imho
babyhueypnewton posted:solidarity with the anti-imperialist heroes of the islamic state fighting back against pinkwashed homonationalism
cars posted:
seriously. somehow trots always manage to support actually reactionary groups as anti-imperialist while condemning actually anti-imperialists on the left. no wonder they all eventually end up becoming neocons.
Edited by Urbandale ()
MarianneSadd posted:It made me really sad.
me too
shriekingviolet posted:le_nelson_mandela_face posted:white supremacists should be scandalized that muslims are so much better at killing people than they are
in a way they are, there's a militant undercurrent to the discussions in a lot of white supremacist forums of "why aren't we doing this"
this does not bode well imho
this guy probably had more in common with dylann roof than, i dunno, the brothers tsarnaev
camera_obscura posted:shriekingviolet posted:
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:
white supremacists should be scandalized that muslims are so much better at killing people than they are
in a way they are, there's a militant undercurrent to the discussions in a lot of white supremacist forums of "why aren't we doing this"
this does not bode well imho
this guy probably had more in common with dylann roof than, i dunno, the brothers tsarnaev
I was going to say Elliot Rodger -- they are saying he was into bodybuilding and was probably hooked on mood-altering creatine when he did the slaying.
Petrol posted:I made the mistake of watching both the Clinton and Trump post-massacre speeches and even gallows humor is hard now
nah it's still funny because trump came out swinging first and all the useless liberals were like "look more insane radicalism from trump, wanting to increase drone strikes and restrict immigration" and then less than 4 hours later hillary was calling for a greater air campaign and expanding the terror watch list and they said fuckin nothing
like even if you correctly recognize that both these people would better serve the human race as a wet and mechanically-separated mulch, one cannot deny the comedy of the political class decrying a proposal as deeply bigoted warmongering madness and then pivoting in the timeframe of a junkie's dump into being forced to agree that almost the same proposal is the smart and tough thing to do
babyhueypnewton posted:I'm a bit skeptical of that story. modern liberalism always tries to pathologize and sexualize any political challenge, party because of postmodern anti-truth and partly out of the extreme smugness that comes with being a daily show liberal. I'll give it a week before it turns out the story was desperate to be made and has no real evidence. communists disagree with this man's actions but at least we understand them as an action and not a personal repression of homosexuality.
It doesn't detract from the reality of the action to problematize the shooter's identity and motivation. I'm happy to ignore the stuff about the alleged profile on the gay hookup app but there are multiple club regulars and staff reporting that they recognised him and he'd been going there on and off for a long time. His father is a reactionary homophobe and allegedly an ex-mujahedin anticommunist soldier. The implications run a little deeper than a smug aside about self-hating gays or whatever.
Petrol posted:babyhueypnewton posted:I'm a bit skeptical of that story. modern liberalism always tries to pathologize and sexualize any political challenge, party because of postmodern anti-truth and partly out of the extreme smugness that comes with being a daily show liberal. I'll give it a week before it turns out the story was desperate to be made and has no real evidence. communists disagree with this man's actions but at least we understand them as an action and not a personal repression of homosexuality.
It doesn't detract from the reality of the action to problematize the shooter's identity and motivation. I'm happy to ignore the stuff about the alleged profile on the gay hookup app but there are multiple club regulars and staff reporting that they recognised him and he'd been going there on and off for a long time. His father is a reactionary homophobe and allegedly an ex-mujahedin anticommunist soldier. The implications run a little deeper than a smug aside about self-hating gays or whatever.
the two sides that have fully developed in less than a day are "this guy was mentally ill, a self-hating homophobe, and bullied/abused his wife/couldn't get a real job and thats why we need gun control" vs. "this guy was a muslim terrorist who attacked america on behalf of ISIS so we need to fight terrorism". As far as I can tell leftists have not developed a position at all, falling entirely on the side of identity politics liberals. You are trying to link his actions to imperialism, which is clearly what we should be doing, but speculating about his personal motivations actively harms this.
SparksBandung posted:
This is a good post, but one that will be drowned in the endless stories about the shooters life, family, motivations, and personal politics. Maybe not here but in the endless sea of noise called social media. Even then it falls into the trap of talking about the 'right.' Trump is right about one thing, it is Hillary and the dems who have the closest relationship to Saudi Arabia and ISIS.
babyhueypnewton posted:the two sides that have fully developed in less than a day are "this guy was mentally ill, a self-hating homophobe, and bullied/abused his wife/couldn't get a real job and thats why we need gun control" vs. "this guy was a muslim terrorist who attacked america on behalf of ISIS so we need to fight terrorism". As far as I can tell leftists have not developed a position at all, falling entirely on the side of identity politics liberals. You are trying to link his actions to imperialism, which is clearly what we should be doing, but speculating about his personal motivations actively harms this.
Well you'll note I said nothing about gun control or mental health. But I do think it's important to emphasize the nexus of imperialism, homophobia and misogyny in this case. The seeming contradiction between the shooter's apparent homosexuality and homophobia is worth comparing with empire's stated and actual stances on LGBT rights http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-un-idUSKCN0YZ23F
My point is really not that they were possibly straight. I don't think this is necessarily more likely than Mateen being closeted. I'm trying to agree with bhpn by pointing out that the discussion of Mateen's identity is not actionable, it's endless... Mateen was a statistical likelihood for the year 2016, given x availability of AR-17s, y percentage of citizens working as military and paramilitary, z number of countries bombed this year, and so on...
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