Edited by swampman ()
i think the best way to advocate communism on a day to day basis is to be an example, a paragon of humanity. hardworking, polite, eager to help. let them think you're a knowledgeable person gradually, by having answers to things they ask and never talking down to them. work is often the best place for this, since misery loves company and people will always identify with people who have suffered alongside them. if you're not suffering in the same straits, it'll be hard, but not impossible, to not comes across as condescending. once a good relationship is established, then you slowly drip feed the socialism. it's a long road, but i can't really see any other way to reach people that have been conditioned their whole lives to hate socialism.
However, it is slightly easier than it was. Although I'm young, it really seems that the collapse of the soviet union resulted in a major misstep in the created cultural zeitgeist. they've abandoned the rhetoric, and shifted the hate onto muslims. the youth don't have the preconditions that older north americans against socialism. hence the rise of bernie.
this is a long enough post, i'll continue it later. i also want to point out this is the first post of mine with no capitals. it took even longer with having to go back and delete them all. i used to think it was childish and the kind of dumbing down of language that was one of the few things in 1984 that resonated with me. but then someone posted "death to capitals" and it all made sense.
-Comparing what honest Marxist and Christians do to tricking rednecks with illusions is disrespectful to both. Also, one thing I've noticed is that, the people who tend to use "redneck" the way you do the most are white people. I don't think that the people to whom the term refers are really victims of racism, but it does reflect the racialized discourse of urban white liberals.
-Your comment about "hermit kingdoms" is racist and not accurate.
-Your comment comparing palestinian activism to your police interactions is creepy and also racist. Also you contradict yourself when you make a joke about how police officers are often veterans of genocidal wars while praising yourself for treating them with "good faith" and "respect." Not that they deserve those things but the way you talk is oblivious to how people might perceive what you're saying in a narcissistic way.
-You seem to be into Zizek. That is not a good thing.
Red_Canadian posted:talk isn't the right way to motivate anyone. the tupamaros had one of the greatest slogans, "words divide us, action unites us". to think that merely being knowledgeable about socialism, and choosing one's words carefully, you can start accumulating apostles? seems like a messiah complex to me.
i think the best way to advocate communism on a day to day basis is to be an example, a paragon of humanity. hardworking, polite, eager to help. let them think you're a knowledgeable person gradually, by having answers to things they ask and never talking down to them. work is often the best place for this, since misery loves company and people will always identify with people who have suffered alongside them. if you're not suffering in the same straits, it'll be hard, but not impossible, to not comes across as condescending. once a good relationship is established, then you slowly drip feed the socialism. it's a long road, but i can't really see any other way to reach people that have been conditioned their whole lives to hate socialism.
However, it is slightly easier than it was. Although I'm young, it really seems that the collapse of the soviet union resulted in a major misstep in the created cultural zeitgeist. they've abandoned the rhetoric, and shifted the hate onto muslims. the youth don't have the preconditions that older north americans against socialism. hence the rise of bernie.
this is a long enough post, i'll continue it later. i also want to point out this is the first post of mine with no capitals. it took even longer with having to go back and delete them all. i used to think it was childish and the kind of dumbing down of language that was one of the few things in 1984 that resonated with me. but then someone posted "death to capitals" and it all made sense.
Thank you
marimite posted:Not just regarding OP, but people thinking about how to win arguments before worrying if they are actually capable of being an educated representative (in a concrete sense) of Marxism seems to be a problem. There are so many things more important: whether you're trustworthy, whether you can help people, you have an organization at your back, whether you actually know what you're talking about. Even among the ways you use language, rhetoric is probably one of the least important. Like your point regarding consent is a correct and forceful argument, but then you frame it in such a creepy way and your later replies are so ignorant I wonder if you're speaking in good faith, much less whether you're capable of converting someone.
-Comparing what honest Marxist and Christians do to tricking rednecks with illusions is disrespectful to both. Also, one thing I've noticed is that, the people who tend to use "redneck" the way you do the most are white people. I don't think that the people to whom the term refers are really victims of racism, but it does reflect the racialized discourse of urban white liberals.
-Your comment about "hermit kingdoms" is racist and not accurate.
-Your comment comparing palestinian activism to your police interactions is creepy and also racist. Also you contradict yourself when you make a joke about how police officers are often veterans of genocidal wars while praising yourself for treating them with "good faith" and "respect." Not that they deserve those things but the way you talk is oblivious to how people might perceive what you're saying in a narcissistic way.
-You seem to be into Zizek. That is not a good thing.
Thank you as well
I appreciate the feedback and honest criticism, I'll chew this cud for a while, and I hope we can continue our dialogue and grow together towards full realized communism
Edited by The_Boourns_Identity ()
fape posted:anyone looking for a good place to start,
poultry processing is mostly immigrant workers now. mostly
What I can do, is be hard working, eager to please, non-confrontational, and sociable with other people. I do this despite their imperfections, as I live life despite my own.
When people really get down to it, and ask me what my political worldviews are I pretty much describe communism to them without using the actual word. A lot of people usually agree with me until someone tells them what the laborer owning the means of production actually translates to. Then I proceed to politely justify why I believe communism is not a bad thing.
They usually politely disagree with me after that, sometimes they are pretty intrigued. Sometimes people get really upset with me, until I calmly remind them that it's just an opinion and that no one is insulting them or judging them and that it's all good.
What Red_Canadian said is very true.
Actions speak louder than words, and you are acting every conscious moment of your life.
tsinava posted:I couldn't even begin to point my peers to concise, easy to understand, sources that explain the USSR famines in a non-revisionist manner
there's a thread for that
cars posted:tsinava posted:I couldn't even begin to point my peers to concise, easy to understand, sources that explain the USSR famines in a non-revisionist manner
there's a thread for that
I went ahead and looked it up 4 you
http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/topic/10879/
refer all potential communists 2 that.
First off, we've got to decide who is worth "converting." In the large picture sense it's none of us because we're 1st world parasites who will be collectively put up against the metaphorical wall and have our iphones taken away and most of the better apps will stop updating. In a narrower sense, most people are because we're all getting fucked at a rate and manner that is uncommon in the developed world & most people are receptive to communist ideas once you get over your culture warrior latte liberal baggage and become willing to engage them on their own level. So to me, most people are worth talking to in this way.
Second, we need to decide "how" to engage people. The "debate" is a once-popular but now extremely niche form of performance. Nobody likes watching this, and nobody likes engaging in a performance with a stranger to the benefit of that stranger. Don't attempt to "debate" people. Regular men understand that you are trying to trick them into playing a game that they don't know the rules to in order to feel smarter than them, and will slice this "Gord Knot" with a single, definitive, go fuck yourself.
Third, if you are approaching this from the perspective of "red necks" who need you to trick them into being correct, you are not useful. There's nothing else to say about it. If your baseline assumption is that the person you are talking to is a stupid racist, you have no ability to influence them in a positive way. Please don't Liberalsplain. Maybe dont say that you're damn glad all the damn crackers have opiate addictions.
So, waht can we do? Find the places where the unfairness of the Earth is cleaving your target (this will be easy since people like to complain) , after commiserating, gently point out systemic causes. This will be easily and readily adopted by your target (assuming they aren't well aware all ready) due to how all their friends have the same problems for the same reasons
Next (unknown step)
Now they are a communist. Congrats.
Well thats my feelings on the issue. Thank you for reading.
Keven posted:Alright let me make a post, about the idea in the OP.
First off, we've got to decide who is worth "converting." In the large picture sense it's none of us because we're 1st world parasites who will be collectively put up against the metaphorical wall and have our iphones taken away and most of the better apps will stop updating. In a narrower sense, most people are because we're all getting fucked at a rate and manner that is uncommon in the developed world & most people are receptive to communist ideas once you get over your culture warrior latte liberal baggage and become willing to engage them on their own level. So to me, most people are worth talking to in this way.
Second, we need to decide "how" to engage people. The "debate" is a once-popular but now extremely niche form of performance. Nobody likes watching this, and nobody likes engaging in a performance with a stranger to the benefit of that stranger. Don't attempt to "debate" people. Regular men understand that you are trying to trick them into playing a game that they don't know the rules to in order to feel smarter than them, and will slice this "Gord Knot" with a single, definitive, go fuck yourself.
Third, if you are approaching this from the perspective of "red necks" who need you to trick them into being correct, you are not useful. There's nothing else to say about it. If your baseline assumption is that the person you are talking to is a stupid racist, you have no ability to influence them in a positive way. Please don't Liberalsplain. Maybe dont say that you're damn glad all the damn crackers have opiate addictions.
So, waht can we do? Find the places where the unfairness of the Earth is cleaving your target (this will be easy since people like to complain) , after commiserating, gently point out systemic causes. This will be easily and readily adopted by your target (assuming they aren't well aware all ready) due to how all their friends have the same problems for the same reasons
Next (unknown step)
Now they are a communist. Congrats.
Well thats my feelings on the issue. Thank you for reading.
thank you for sharing amgigo, this was good
elias posted:stego relaunch readsettlers.org or hand the domain over to someone who will.
that wasnt my site. i fuckin wish it was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpHw5LGCzyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDA63AwXJ3s
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2008/colson_gkparadox_mar08.asp
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/382030-but-the-new-rebel-is-a-skeptic-and-will-not
and I know Zizek isn't "cool" anymore but anyway here's this:
http://www.lacan.com/zizhegche.htm
So basically my argument is, carried on the shoulders of giants, of course,that just as Christ is the mediator between man and God, so to is Marxism the mediator between man Capitalism; the system which interpolates him.
TL;DR:
tpaine posted:to be mango...
Edited by The_Boourns_Identity ()
and I think it's a lil relevant considering Obama's recent move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fGq-59bymE
That's the question that you seem to have answered that nobody asked.
The retarded new radium who psychotically hates communism is jizzing over this PM and renamed the election forum in honor of it.
Immortan posted:
Disdain for marxism = Hitler now?
---------------------------------------------------------
well of course the former doesn't necessarily lead to the latter, but the former was certainly a crucial foundational thesis of mein kampf so it's not like they are totally unrelated
(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
ilmdge posted:Is this you Boourns?
The retarded new radium who psychotically hates communism is jizzing over this PM and renamed the election forum in honor of it.
Lol yeah man that owned
ilmdge posted:I actually think he got probated for calling anti-communists fascist.
Immortan posted:
Disdain for marxism = Hitler now?
---------------------------------------------------------
well of course the former doesn't necessarily lead to the latter, but the former was certainly a crucial foundational thesis of mein kampf so it's not like they are totally unrelated
(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
This is correct, so I'm combing through mein Kampf again for a mega post to prove how anti-Marxism is a crucial theoretical foundation of racist fascism.
It's quite fun actually, and yeah that mod hates me, probated me for using the word "neoliberal" when describing Clinton and word filtered "neoliberal" into "n-word" (which, by the way, was my idea, borne out of mocking his intolerance for economic discussion in the politics sub forum)
Much worse than radium IMO
They kept calling me racist and tried to chase me out of the forum, and I stopped posting there for a couple months and it was just like 4 white guys talking about their 6 figure incomes (not joking), and patting themselves on e back for being the most progressive by supporting HRC even though they chased out the only non-white guy in there (me)
And for the record, our poster her C_man is just pozzed at me cuz I trolled him in BYOB in 2009 or something. Sorry dude.
Edited by The_Boourns_Identity ()
The_Boourns_Identity posted:it was just like 4 white guys talking about their 6 figure incomes (not joking), and patting themselves on e back for being the most progressive
literally an7y time i hang with my white friends this what we're discussing btw