HenryKrinkle posted:also: it is generally true that sex work legalization proponents often neglect to actually advocate for the labor protections they say they always will and are overly concerned with being seen as "stigmatizing" the porn/sex industry. but couldn't a similar thing be alleged about prohibitionists kind of glossing over the fact that in the US women can still be arrested and jailed for prostitution?
not equating the two but i think there needs to be a focus on decriminalizing the victims and giving a better economic support system for women in general.
There are feminists who gloss over the fact that women are imprisoned for prostitution? Please share names; this is unacceptable.
dank_xiaopeng posted:yeah. i'm paraphrasing the words of our dearly departed doxxed discipline but the question we should be asking people who claim porn's just another job is "how much would you need to get paid to let your boss, your CEO, and the janitor fuck your ass and face? would you trust your boss to treat you well during and after?"
I mean, I think this is like maybe a useful hypothetical, but overall the wrong way to think about it. What if the person does answer in the affirmative and has number in their mind where it's worth it? I mean, most first world female performers do defend their choice and the conditions of their work. Does that mean we should accept a situation in which that choice is available, let alone be reasonable to some women? This is why it's kind of unproductive to look at questions like these in terms of individual choice.
I think a potentially more productive hypothetical is would you support child labour if everyone in the equation was a willing participant?
i mean it's kind of sad that there is no widespread movement in the US for implementation of the "Swedish" (?) method of punishing johns and pimps while giving social support to women. but maybe that's more or less the fault of legalization advocates who take on "all or nothing" approach and are more concerned with legitimizing sexual exploitation than the civil liberties of women? yeah that sounds more like it.
= State and Revolution, The Experience of 1848-51 – V.I. Lenin, 1917 posted:Two institutions are most charecteristic of state machinery: the bureaucracy and the standing army. In their works, Marx and Engels repeatedly show that it is the bourgeoisie with whom these institutions are connected by a thousand threads. The experience of every worker illustrates this connection in an extremely graphic and impressive manner. From its own bitter experience, the working class learns to recognise this connection; this is why it so easily grasps and so firmly learns the doctrine which shows the inevitability of this connection, a doctrine which the petty-bourgeois democrats either ignorantly and flippantly deny or, still more flippantly, admit “in general” while forgetting to draw the corresponding practical conclusions
tpaine posted:its kinda like white guilt, except instead of skin its cum
tpaine posted:porn is pretty much the dark soul of the rhizzone
tpaine posted:no dark souls is a difficult action rpg, that wasn't a typo
porn it seems is pretty much the dark soul, and the pearly white white guilt of the rhizzone
tears posted:sex workers are inherently revolutionary because of their shit jobs, see this cool quote from someone who knew his shit:
= State and Revolution, The Experience of 1848-51 – V.I. Lenin, 1917 posted:Two institutions are most charecteristic of state machinery: the bureaucracy and the standing army. In their works, Marx and Engels repeatedly show that it is the bourgeoisie with whom these institutions are connected by a thousand threads. The experience of every worker illustrates this connection in an extremely graphic and impressive manner. From its own bitter experience, the working class learns to recognise this connection; this is why it so easily grasps and so firmly learns the doctrine which shows the inevitability of this connection, a doctrine which the petty-bourgeois democrats either ignorantly and flippantly deny or, still more flippantly, admit “in general” while forgetting to draw the corresponding practical conclusions
See, this is what creeps me out about all these "advocates" who appeal to an idealism in that they insist that the first step is encouraging every individual to see sex work as "a job like any other".. it's inherently reactionary. Not to be too Thomas Friedmanesque, but I've known women who worked in the sex industry, and they never spoke like this. They were all drug addicts, abused women, and never would see their acceptance as a commentator on Salon as a step in the direction of liberation. Rather, they knew all too well who the enemy was.
I also know women who found out about the trials of sex work from the higher end, from $1000 per night call girls... naturally, they had a different story to tell. All the women I'd encountered were from slum housing, with bruises and track marks. Perhaps it really boils down to the most privileged having the platforms to decide for the less privileged. Isn't Laurie Penny from a wealthy background?
MarianneSadd posted:See, this is what creeps me out about all these "advocates" who appeal to an idealism in that they insist that the first step is encouraging every individual to see sex work as "a job like any other".. it's inherently reactionary. Not to be too Thomas Friedmanesque, but I've known women who worked in the sex industry, and they never spoke like this. They were all drug addicts, abused women, and never would see their acceptance as a commentator on Salon as a step in the direction of liberation. Rather, they knew all too well who the enemy was.
I also know women who found out about the trials of sex work from the higher end, from $1000 per night call girls... naturally, they had a different story to tell. All the women I'd encountered were from slum housing, with bruises and track marks. Perhaps it really boils down to the most privileged having the platforms to decide for the less privileged. Isn't Laurie Penny from a wealthy background?
these "advocates" are also probs the people who say taht bankers have families too and that not all cops are bad
as for "high end" prostitution, this probs maps onto the pyramid of capitalist exploitation p nicely, in that for every prostitute making bank there are a gaillion as u describe, living in shit, because, on a global scale, theere are only a few people (tiny proportion that is) who can afford $$$$ escorts so there are only a few $$$$ escorts and the rest are giveing handobs in the carpark or something idk
tears posted:sum1 pls confirm that female pornographic laborers take a lot of opiate painkillers to do "scenes" (ugh) because a lot of that shit hurts like hell (and nt just physically!) because im p sure high levels of pain r nt part of most proles jobs so yeah: special treatmentt makes sense and is a good thing. just a thought.
goatstein, i posted about chatting w a woman who was running away from a brothel a couple of weeks ago maybe and she wasnt all like i knew it was going to be gross when i agreed to start, she was more like i had to have sex with disgusting overweight sexxbuying men because couldnt afford rent and food due to capitalism
well i dont doubt that capitalism drives women to these positions who would otherwise have not chosen them but i do note that there are are ample prostitutes in netherlands, australia and france ie some of the strongest social democratic welfare states in the world, because some people prefer money over dignity
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:tears posted:
sum1 pls confirm that female pornographic laborers take a lot of opiate painkillers to do "scenes" (ugh) because a lot of that shit hurts like hell (and nt just physically!) because im p sure high levels of pain r nt part of most proles jobs so yeah: special treatmentt makes sense and is a good thing. just a thought.
goatstein, i posted about chatting w a woman who was running away from a brothel a couple of weeks ago maybe and she wasnt all like i knew it was going to be gross when i agreed to start, she was more like i had to have sex with disgusting overweight sexxbuying men because couldnt afford rent and food due to capitalism
well i dont doubt that capitalism drives women to these positions who would otherwise have not chosen them but i do note that there are are ample prostitutes in netherlands, australia and france ie some of the strongest social democratic welfare states in the world, because some people prefer money over dignity
the market really does manage everything...
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:i do note that there are are ample prostitutes in netherlands, australia and france ie some of the strongest social democratic welfare states in the world, because some people prefer money over dignity
to be fair, some people think we can do better than social-democracy. a few of us, at least, wandering the digital wastelands like fallout characters in search of some sort of terraforming device (socialism)
le_nelson_mandela_face posted:there are are ample prostitutes in netherlands, australia and france ie some of the strongest social democratic welfare states in the world, because some people prefer money over dignity
Yeah, like human traffickers.
tpaine posted:HenryKrinkle posted:i still find the legal status of sex work being based on the presence of a camera very strange.
MarianneSadd posted:[I also know women who found out about the trials of sex work from the higher end, from $1000 per night call girls... naturally, they had a different story to tell. All the women I'd encountered were from slum housing, with bruises and track marks. Perhaps it really boils down to the most privileged having the platforms to decide for the less privileged. Isn't Laurie Penny from a wealthy background?
yeah they are all over twitter and it does seem like a good job for them and they have set up or joined all sorts of progressive organisations to lobby liberalising sex work (specifically the decriminalising johns and pimps part)
women who are trafficked or perform sex work due to poverty or addiction are waved away by saying 'its better than working at tesco' or some such
i havent spoken with low income women compelled into prostitution so i dont know the solutions or options they are looking for (nor do i know how many sex workers are from that background as opposed to high income escorts -- i suspect it would be many more), so all i can do is grumble when these feminists demand more liberal sex buying
tpaine posted:gyrofry posted:tpaine posted:HenryKrinkle posted:i still find the legal status of sex work being based on the presence of a camera very strange.
i'm really sorry but every clip i've seen from this show has been stupendously unfunny, what am i missing
bob odenkirk's wigs and baldcaps primarily