swirlsofhistory posted:

Print outs of your posts will suffice

who are you again mate?

tears posted:

c_man, my problem is not with the big bang or any other individual part of scientific knowledge, its with “science” as a whole as operating under capitalism and its smug sense of self satisfaction and confidence in its own infallibility. Also this isn't an attack on you, im just pissed off

Let me explain my irritation with my fellow know-it-all scientists. What we have currently is a pretty robust theory developed from observation of the universe from our little speck of rock that the universe originated from a single point and has expanded, galaxies, suns, systems and planets arose, quantity transformed into quality, they cooled, produced the conditions necessary for carbon life and then we came along, the only known arrangement of matter that has developed consciousness of itself, quite probably the lowest, least complex arrangement of matter that can gain consciousness of itself.

And thats crux 1, we are fucking dumb, we think slowly, or brains are pretty crap really, we get steadily less good at processing, understanding and being fully conscious of things as they become more removed from our immediate material existence, in both time and space, as scales become larger or smaller away from the scales we have evolved at, and yet we look out into the whole damn universe, with our consciousness which we are ever so proud of and a few of us declaim to the rest: this is how it is, we have the answers, we've solved it.

Well, what have they solved? They haven't solved shit, they've just recounted observations: the universe arose from a single point, it expanded, here’s how galaxies are formed etc. You can literally watch that shit through a telescope by looking at galaxies in various states of formation. And they haven't even got past the observation stage: dark energy, dark matter etc, these are just ways of saying some-thing’s happening and there must be something there but we can't observe it, and this isn't insignificant numbers here, this is saying we can't yet account for ~83% of the matter in the universe! The sum of the entire knowledge of the human species is minuscule compared to the sum of all that is to be known, and to not recognise this is weak and conceited, humans throughout every stage of history have thought they were approaching knowing everything, understanding everything, and we look back and laugh, and in the future, as now, humans will look back at 2016 and their “end of historyscience” bigheadedness and laugh.

Everything else beyond the little we know is pure speculation, on the universal and beyond-universal scale its philosophy: try asking a physicist on the origin of the big bang, or what dark matter is, or where the universe is heading, or other dimensions beyond our pitiful weak consciousness, or on the similarities between the super-galaxy web and the human brain and they will at best go “hmmm, yeah, that's interesting, but its more philosophy than science”. The universe as we know it is just the sum of our observations from our planet using crude ass tools filtered through our crude senses into our crude brain and we're just not very good at consciousness of scales and concepts that our outside our immediate material circumstances, we're just not very intelligent, and so our understanding of the universe is piss-poor

combine this with two things:

1) the lack of the science of dialectical materialism and marxism-leninism providing an overarching framework through which to understand and theorise about the universe. If you accept the pre-eminence of marxist science over all other scientific disciplines, i.e. that dialectical materialism is the “theory of theories” for all matter-energy in the universe, which any Marxist-Leninist must, then you can surely see that without seeing the divided scientific fields within this overall framework scientific research and discovery is hampered. DM also tells us that, in relation to the point above, knowing everything is impossible, because there are always more connections, further links to the relatedness of matter-energy and we are no-where near understanding even a fraction of it. What amazes me is that DM is so self-evident across the whole universe but my fellow scientists seem either wilfully ignorant, or at best unable to look outside of the narrow blinkers of their extreme specialisation and thus never really join the dots. And so you get many many stupid ass theories (not referring to the big bang here!) bandied about by supposedly intelligent people, outright fascism pushed onto people as scientific fact and because its science, by a scientist, it has to be obeyed and taken as 100% truth from you betters. This pisses me off immensely.

2) Science under capitalism is terrible. The drivers are all wrong: wealth and exploitation; and, the actual value of labour put towards scientific research is minuscule. You just need to compare for e.g. the phama-industrial complex's marketing budget to its r&d budget, or money put into space exploration after the soviets were no longer on the stage, or marine biology vs fishing technology. Or even just the tiny proportion of government budgets and human labour as a whole that goes towards what should be the most important thing we humans as a conscious species do after satisfying the material conditions of our own existence: inquiry into the material conditions of our own existence and how to understand and improve them. There is literally no reason to conduct scientific research under capitalism unless it facilitates new ways to exploit the natural world or people. And so to think our current scientific system under capitalism is any better or different than say our education system, or our agricultural system, or prison system is laughable. And yet, scientists will tell you the complete opposite, the myth of the noble research institute, and the masses believe that, rather than understanding that the majority of science is research into how to fuck them and the earth further.

And so when I see people lauding scientific research under capitalism as having all the answers or being some great noble quest for knowledge rather than a bunch of underfunded smug bourgie fascists looking at new ways to exploit the proles for their capitalist masters I can't help but scoff & get angry

and that’s why we need to synthesise to a higher stage of consciousness, communism, if we really want to advance science

lmao

notciaNOTjew posted:

its predictive power is rubbish and has to be badly patched with historical revisionism

Citation needed

tears posted:

i know, one of those things I keep saying im going to do, anything on agriculture, botany and that sort of thing is of most interest, should really read the Lysenko stuff ive been putting off for ages

lysenko isn't really particularly interesting except politically. he wasnt a trained scientist and a lot of the stuff he ended up being "right" about (e.g. horizontal gene transfer) was never demonstrated by him. there were plenty of sciences in the ussr that functioned perfectly well (e.g. physics, chemistry, mathematics, various engineering disciplines) without having make up excuses for where it experienced objective failures.

notciaNOTjew posted:

Criticisms of scientific arrogance from the staggering intellectuals of the adherents of Marxism-Leninism, which is definitely a scientific theory. If it seems like its predictive power is rubbish and has to be badly patched with historical revisionism that's just dialectics.

Marxism-Leninism was the guiding light of the Bolshevik revolution, the lightning industrialisation of the USSR, the defeat of Fascism in Europe and the liberation of the peoples of eastern Europe from Nazism and the yoke of capitalism, the victory of the CPC and the people of China against Fascism in east Asia, the ending of the cycle of famine and food insecurity in the USSR and PRC, the Cuban revolution and the defence of socialism in the Caribbean, the Korean revolution and the victories of the DPRK, the development of the Marxist-Leninist derived theories of Maoism, Hoxhaism and Juche, the defeat of French and Amerikkkan imperialism by the Vietnamese people, as well as being the primary reason for the successes in winning workers rights in countries still enslaved by the yoke of capitalism and the liberation of hundreds of millions of proletariat and peasantry from wage slavery.

Marxism-Leninism, a Science so powerful, so correct that it scared the shit out of the 1st world bourgeoisie so much they orchestrated anti-Marxism-Leninism counter-revolutions and/or invasions in Bolivia, Uruguay, Quebec, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Malaya, Philippines, Ethiopia, El Salvador, Peru, India, East Germany, Syria, Korea, Vietnam, China, Cuba, Iraq, Dominican Republic, Cambodia, Laos, Chile, Angola, Grenada, and more, terrified that their own proles were going to string them up for their unforgivable crimes against the people of the earth!

And you come in here talking shit about the science of Marxism-Leninism like its “not real”!? Accusing it of “revisionism”?! A science that has liberated hundreds of millions of comrades from under the jackbook of capitalist exploitation and slavery?! A Science that led to the greatest emancipation of the working class ever seen?! The only Science that has even a chance to save your pathetic life from the inevitable destruction of the entire fucking world under continuing capitalist exploitation?!

Every time you or any other person living under capitalism benefits from an 8-hour day, a minimum wage, a national health service, social security, universal education, effective unions, social housing, legal aid, progressive taxation or just not having to shout heil hitler in-front of a swastika every morning you should bow the fuck down before a shrine dedicated to the countless, nameless Marxist-Leninists who died struggling to their last breath against the capitalist system, bow your fucking head and say thank-you, thank-you glorious comrades, for giving your lives so I could post anti-Marxist-Leninist crap on the internet. Piss off!

tears posted:

the countless, nameless Marxist-Leninists who died struggling to their last breath against the capitalist system

tell that to voznesensky

littlegreenpills posted:

i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that dialectical materialism may not be able to explain literally everything in the entire universe

this is v triggering to me

The_Boourns_Identity posted:

there needs to be a concentrated effort at subverted the notion of objective reality

do you read sutter caine