tsinava posted:

In other news, Neil deGrasse Tyson really likes fascism.(But we already knew that.)

Black Science Man noo

"Bernie voted in favor of HR 3107 - Iran and Libya Sanctions Act of 1996, which "imposes sanctions on persons exporting certain goods or technology that would enhance Iran's ability to explore for, extract, refine, or transport by pipeline petroleum resources, and for other purposes."

In 1997, Bernie voted for HR 2159 - Foreign Operations FY98 Appropriations bill, which included: $3 billion for Israel, including $1.8 billion in military assistance and $1.2 billion in economic assistance; $2.12 billion for Egypt, including $1.3 billion in military assistance and $815 million in economic assistance; $770 million for former Soviet Republics; and $215 million for international narcotics control and law enforcement.

He also voted for HR 4059 - Military Construction FY99 Appropriations bill, which provided $2.82 billion for general military construction.

In 1998, Bernie's name was included as a YEA vote on HR 4655, the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, which expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the aim of the United States to remove Saddam Hussein from power.

President George W. Bush later used the Iraqi Liberation Act to provide justification for military action for the 2003 invasion.

In 1999, Bernie voted for HR 2465, which provided $4 billion for military construction, and he voted for HR 3196, which provided: $2.16 billion for military and economic assistance to Israel; $760 million for military and economic assistance to Egypt; $535 million for Eastern European and the Baltic States, including $150 million for assistance to Kosovo; $300 million for military and economic assistance to Jordan; and $285 million for international narcotics control.

Writes Ron Jacobs of Counter Punch, 3/31/2003:

"For those of us with a memory longer than the average US news reporter, we can remember Bernie's staunch support for Clinton's 100-day bombing of Yugoslavia and Kosovo in 1999. I served as a support person for a dozen or so Vermonters who sat-in in his Burlington office a couple weeks into that war. Not only did Sanders refuse to talk with us via telephone (unlike his Vermont counterparts in the Senate-Leahy and Jeffords), he had his staff call the local police to arrest those who refused to leave until Sanders spoke with them. The following week Sanders held a town hall meeting in Montpelier, VT., where he surrounded himself with sympathetic war supporters and one university professor who opposed the war and Bernie's support for it. During the question and answer part of the meeting, Sanders yelled at two of the audience's most vocal opponents to his position and told them to leave if they didn't like what he had to say."

In 2001, Bernie supported HR 1954, which extended the Iran-Libya Sanctions Act of 1996.

Following the 9/11 attacks, Bernie voted in favor of H J Res 64 - Authorization for Use of Military Force, which allowed President Bush to use the United States Armed Forces against anyone involved with 9/11 and any nation that harbors these individuals.

In 2002, Bernie voted against H J Res 114, which authorized President Bush to use military force against Iraq. However, he would continue to support bloated military defense bills that would ultimately be used to sustain the war he allegedly disagreed with.

In 2003, Bernie supported HR 5010, which provided $355.1 billion in appropriations for the Defense Department for fiscal year 2003 - an increase of $37.5 billion from 2002 - as well as: $71.6 billion for procurement of aircraft, missiles, weapons, combat vehicles and shipbuilding; $7.4 billion for ballistic missile defense; and $58.4 million for foreign aid, which includes humanitarian assistance, foreign disaster relief and de-mining programs.

He also voted in favor of HR 2800 - Foreign Operations Appropriations, FY 2004 bill, which granted $1.8 billion in military and economic assistance to Egypt and $2.2 billion for Israeli military assistance.

In 2004, Bernie supported HR 4613, which allocated $25 billion for emergency defense spending for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and $77.4 billion for the procurement of new weapons.

In 2005, Sanders supported HR 2863 - Defense Department FY2006 Appropriations Bill, which provided $50 billion for ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In 2006, Bernie voted for HR 5631, which provided $70 billion for ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In 2007, he supported HR 1585 - National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, which granted $187.14 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan operations.

In 2009, he voted in favor of HR 2647, which authorized $309 million for research and evaluation, procurement, or deployment of an alternative Missile Defense System in Europe, and also allowed the Secretary of Defense to increase the active-duty number for the US Army to a number greater than otherwise allowed by law up to the 2010 baseline plus 30,000 troops.

During the same year, he called closing the torturous gulag at Guantanamo a "complicated issue" and ultimately rejected a proposal to shut it down.

In 2011, Bernie co-sponsored S. Res. 85, which urged the UN Security Council to take action to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory.

In 2014, Bernie came out in favor of levying economic sanctions (an act of war) against Russia: "The entire world has got to stand up to Putin," he said. "We've got to deal with sanctions."

That same year, Bernie didn't object to having his name included - by unanimous consent - in S.498, which backed Israel's brutal, summer-long military assault against Gaza.

Most recently, he vowed to continue Obama's murderous international drone war. Bernie also supports funneling weapons into Iraq to fight ISIS as well as airstrikes, and he continues to spread the myth that Iran seeks to build nuclear weapons.

Just so all of you with Berning friends have a handly list for ya

Red_Canadian posted:

That's damning. Thanks, I appreciate that a lot more than people just calling me an idiot.

youre an iudiot

elias posted:

if we take the bpp to be the avatar of the furthest advance for democracy in this country we know what to do when we know that sanders has voted to extradite and imprison assata shakur.

tbh you're better off listing his numerous votes in favor of war and Israel than this, which is somewhat arguable:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/089.html

HenryKrinkle posted:

elias posted:
if we take the bpp to be the avatar of the furthest advance for democracy in this country we know what to do when we know that sanders has voted to extradite and imprison assata shakur.
tbh you're better off listing his numerous votes in favor of war and Israel than this, which is somewhat arguable:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/089.html

The signature on that letter actually belongs to a person named bold maxine waters bold and not , in fact, the man named bold bernie sanders bold.

babyhueypnewton posted:

tsinava posted:

i think most of us know that social democracy is a variant of fascism, i think the point is that trump says a lot of alarmingly fascist things. i mean he technically has a cleaner policy record than bernie so i guess you can argue that bernie is more fascist but whatever.

Only because we've been trained to look at the superficial qualities of fascism instead of the material reality. This allowed America to point to West Germany, post-war Japan, post-War South Korea, etc and say "look they aren't fascist they don't talk about purity and virility or whatever." As Zizek would say, we know that fascism won the second world war and we live in a fascist world, and yet this is very hard to accept.

Could you go over the material reality of fascism?
I'm sure you have done so before but I'm dumb and repetition helps

babyhueypnewton posted:

tsinava posted:

i think most of us know that social democracy is a variant of fascism, i think the point is that trump says a lot of alarmingly fascist things. i mean he technically has a cleaner policy record than bernie so i guess you can argue that bernie is more fascist but whatever.

Only because we've been trained to look at the superficial qualities of fascism instead of the material reality. This allowed America to point to West Germany, post-war Japan, post-War South Korea, etc and say "look they aren't fascist they don't talk about purity and virility or whatever." As Zizek would say, we know that fascism won the second world war and we live in a fascist world, and yet this is very hard to accept.

:jehusay:

EmanuelaBrolandi posted:

Xipe:
https://thecapitalistholocaust.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/chapter-3-fascism-a-capitalist-phenomenon/

Thanks this is good (and I'd even read it before see what I mean about repetition)

He explores the material basis of fascism in Italy Spain and Nazi Germany, would be good to see some examination of Taiwan ROK West Germany Japan etc examples which Huey mentioned (EU regime would be of interest for me too)

babyhueypnewton posted:

tsinava posted:

i think most of us know that social democracy is a variant of fascism, i think the point is that trump says a lot of alarmingly fascist things. i mean he technically has a cleaner policy record than bernie so i guess you can argue that bernie is more fascist but whatever.

Only because we've been trained to look at the superficial qualities of fascism instead of the material reality. This allowed America to point to West Germany, post-war Japan, post-War South Korea, etc and say "look they aren't fascist they don't talk about purity and virility or whatever." As Zizek would say, we know that fascism won the second world war and we live in a fascist world, and yet this is very hard to accept.

yeah i don't buy that. umburto eco's definition of fascism might be not marxist and consistently erasing class, but that's more or less appropriate because fascism itself not only does the same, but is very specifically designed to do the same. fascism, as brolandi's link notes, is what capitalism turns to when the threat of socialism leaves it no other choice, so of course it emphasizes the aspects of Western culture that are best suited to block class consciousness--racism, nationalism, martial glorification, fetishized masculinity. the differences between liberalism and fascism are meaningful for both the bourgeois (liberal rights are illusionary for the proletariat but they are real for the bourgeois, and by trading them for security the class enters a distinctly different mode) and the proletariat (which suffers "egradation and intensified exploitation" and which the fascist state ultimately aims to eliminate, be it through conscription, through bourgization via seized capital, or replacement by slave labor and extermination of the remainder--conta liberalism, which wishes to continue exploitation and has no desire to eliminate its golden goose). i don't feel it is necessary to conflate liberalism and fascism when it's perfectly possible to simply note that liberalism is willing and able to match the monstrosities of fascism

also while I don't have strong feelings on zizek my understanding is that he went Full Fascist himself and as such i'm not really inclined to listen to him try to tell me that the soviet union didn't win WWII

all that said, apply the necessary grains of salt to account for the fact that i am, of course, a liberal