futurewidow posted:

Myfanwy posted:

Crow posted:
i dont think reserving privilege for your opinion, activity, or occupation has to do with masculinity, or perhaps an essential quality that should relate to it. like, humility can register in masculinity, and that directly conflicts with any sort of privileging of self or group. i mean i think in the end it relates back to building the proper masculinity, and you can see these things in religious texts (obviously not consistently) and ancient works..

in the example of stalin, he was profoundly influenced by the georgian ideal of knight (karachogheli) as a valiant defender. i dont see anything wrong with that, in of itself, but i am biased and believe fidelity to the truth (in this case justice and liberation) is the most brave life, and one must defend the truthful event of liberation (love, revolution, epiphany). so there i can see how one can resurrect a 'masculinity', because essentially it is rather ambiguous and open to the freedom of action.

I agree with you. I think in the race to be seen as not a bad guy, men can go too far from the essential good qualities of man, being honorable and brave and fair, standing in the face of adversity and stuff like that. A real masculinity is something good for all people, it shouldn't be confused for the fake action movie masculinity of the fatherless that's just anger and random violence and intimidation

we have to question why those attributes are masculine in the first place - honesty, loyalty, bravery, etc are not traditionally associated with femininity for a reason. a wife may be loyal because she is submissive but otherwise a woman's treachery knows no bounds

i dont mean those are attributes of masculinity, i mean there's a masculine expression of this, in a sort of repetitious aggregate of previous forms, and actually i think its just the counterpart to a feminine expression. in that way, in a truly-separate-but-equal way i think we can work this, it would make sense for women's liberation to be a space for the autonomous organization of women. perhaps two spheres of intersectionality, a sort of venn diagram, which in the middle constitutes 'traversing the fantasy'

The distinction between male and female is not just a biological accident but a very profound element of the human state. It goes back from the biological through the psychological and the spiritual to the Divine Reality itself. On the highest level of the Divine Reality, Allah is perfectly One. The root of the duality between the masculine and feminine is found in the divine nature itself. Allah's Essence transcends all duality, all relationality, so it is beyond male or female. But even on the level of the Divine Nature, there are the roots of the masculine and the feminine. On the highest level, Allah is at once Absolute and Infinite. These two attributes are the supreme archetypes of the masculine and the feminine. "Masculine" and "feminine" are not simply equivalents of the human male and female, since all men and women have elements of both masculinity and femininity within them. That Allah is Absolute is the principle of masculinity, and that Allah is Infinite is the principle of femininity. Allah has revealed Himself in the Qur’ân in the names of rigor and mercy, known as the names of Majesty (jalâl) and Beauty (jamâl). The Generous, the Merciful, the Forgiving are names of mercy or Beauty, while the Enumerator and the Just are names of rigor or Majesty. On the level of the names are the principles of the masculine and the feminine: the names of Majesty are the prototype of masculinity, while the names of Beauty are the prototype of femininity.

Seen from the exterior, Islam may appear as a masculine-dominated faith. That is because its external aspects, such as the sacred law that governs the social order, are a manifestation of Allah's jalâl attributes. The hidden side of Islam, little known to the outside world, lives and breathes the values of interiority, the loving, forgiving, merciful Divine Presence that draws hearts closer, the infinite jamâl aspects of Allah's Beauty. The eternal primacy of Allah's feminine nature is established in a hadith qudsi: "My mercy precedes My wrath" (rahmatî sabaqat ghadabî).

Beyond all, the infinite eternal mystery of Allah's uncreated Essence is the Divine Feminine that is the ultimate spiritual Reality, calling to the souls who love Allah to come home and find perfect peace.

http://www.adishakti.org/text_files/islam_and_the_divine_feminine.htm

masculinity and feminity are distinct opposites but also the ultimately the same~

evil is just evil, god is free of these attributes and so are man and woman if they submits to the origin of all creation

Crow posted:

babyfinland posted:
can't good masculinity just be men being good

yes, correct, but what is "men being good", thats what i'm trying to delineate. and i think good is truth, and evil is the corruption of truth, presupposing it and always temporal (just like the explosion of truth). what is 'true' about masculinity? sacrifice, kindness, unrelenting drive, among other things. these are obviously found in femininity, but if gender is performative, then it is performed in difference (and repetition). Weird 2 think about.

aye

discipline posted:

Crow posted:
yes, correct, but what is "men being good", thats what i'm trying to delineate. and i think good is truth, and evil is the corruption of truth, presupposing it and always temporal (just like the explosion of truth). what is 'true' about masculinity? sacrifice, kindness, unrelenting drive, among other things. these are obviously found in femininity, but if gender is performative, then it is performed in difference (and repetition). Weird 2 think about.

Where chivalry comes from: the ability to rape but not doing so out of moral obligation I suppose

so its responsibility and wielding power in a just way. power is not evil

internationalist posted:

deadken posted:
that gas middle america article is dumb as shit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black

As generally understood, the person accusing is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation. An alternative interpretation, recognised by some, but not all, sources is that the pot is sooty (being placed on a fire), while the kettle is clean and shiny (being placed on coals only), and hence when the pot accuses the kettle of being black, it is the pot’s own sooty reflection that it sees: the pot accuses the kettle of a fault that only the pot has, rather than one that they share. See also projection.

By the way, note how deadken just said the article was dum without quoting what he didn't like or explaining what he meant. Classic deadken.

lmao

discipline posted:
I don't blame people who voted for john kerry because I sure did (I was like 19)

no and i dont blame people who voted for obama either, but the idea that not voting for kerry is indicative of some kind of lack of human worth is fucking retarded