discipline posted:
Do you like honestly believe in female and male brains? And if you do then what makes them female and male brains?
i don't, but it's not a point of principle. there is a pretty unambiguous difference between malecrotches and femalecrotches and most of the time it's inconsequential
discipline posted:littlegreenpills posted:
the recognition of gender dysphoria as a Real Problem is pretty deeply linked from the burgeoning acceptance and publicisation over the last thirty years of Really Existing Femalebrains and Malebrains by Real Neuropsychologists Et Cetera, which is a symptom of a fundamentally political reaction against women's liberation? help meDo you like honestly believe in female and male brains? And if you do then what makes them female and male brains?
jools posted:
uh broheitsef why do you think stuff liek birthing pools is popular
huh?
discipline posted:Lessons posted:
you think people have SRS to obtain government documents?I'm not really speaking about the motivations of people or a group of people who seek SRS surgery, which would be rather unfair. I'm speaking about structural forces. I'm asking what you would call the requirement of society to be seen as woman only once you undergo these medical procedures
you're ... missing something here. there are people who go through every manner of surgery imaginable and still are not recognized as their identified gender by society, (government documents aside). so while maybe we can talk about a pernicious influence of the medical industry on gender, and in fact we should, you can't really classify this as some sort of peculiar modern phenomenon, let alone the ultimate cause of the way individuals are gendered.
jools posted:
well Capitalism generally cant deal with Being, it can only cope with Becoming
dude, i can't believe i have to tell you this, but. you are not your fucking khakis.
discipline posted:
You're detracting from my point. People believe in god no matter how much you wish they didn't, likewise people have ideas about women that we can't change no matter how much we wish we could. I'm speaking about structural changes in how we socially approach womanhood, from something eve-based to something based on pills and creams and surgery, not about whether or not trans women are accepted by society.
you were ... just talking about that though. in the post i quoted.
discipline posted:
You were the one who was suddenly on about motivations of people to get SRS, I was trying to ask you to think about the structures in place that only see women as a sum of their medical history and/or parts, i.e. requiring SRS for certain government documents
we can talk about women being viewed as the sum of medical conditions and biological processes. we can also talk about women being viewed as the sum of body parts, that is, sexual objectification. or we can talk about women being viewed as baby-makers. but what i want to know here, and what you seem extremely unwilling to elaborate on, is how you see these views of women as relevant to transgendered people.
jools posted:
cmon Baby, its TL, he calls em as he ssees em
he shares the bigotry of the troonstalkers against muslims which is where all of this started anyways. everything after the fact is lies or back and forth trolling
discipline posted:
Yah sure man, it works like this: Isn't it funny that a transwoman is not given certain government documents (ie. legal recognition) until they take on the 'official' mantle of gender - that being in this case surgery, hormones, and 'living as a woman' for a prescribed amount of time (whatever the fuck that means). Why I'd say that's essentializing womanhood using medical science as a weapon of power wouldn't you.
yes, i agree that the legal and medical system puts up too many barriers to transition.
babyfinland posted:
i like how when a pack of raving lunatics stalk some people for years its the people who are stalked who are interrogated for their alleged bigotry or whatever, and the crazies are assumed to Have a Point
genderstalked
Cycloneboy posted:
I like to use the terms "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" because I am literally a teenager. What's your excuse??
Honestly probably because it makes me feel like a teen who is having fun.
jools posted:
have tehy looked at branes of people w/5-alpha reductase syndrome
they only lack one form of it, iirc, not both 5ar-1 and 2 enzymes, which doesn't seem to cause any negative side effects except a lot of scalp hair. but the drugs people take to block androgens or androgen production, do effect brain function negatively, as androgens play some role in mental functionality or memory, and not to mention emotions as well.
Goethestein posted:
Transgenderism seems to have exploded all over the internet in the last 2 -3 years. Strangely about the same time that aspergers became a cliche and fell out of fashion. Probably just a coincidence, no way depressed nerds who are awkward in their bodies and social relations are just making up a new pathology. They gave female brains, so obviously in fact that an MRI to confirm is silly
This is absolutely the case for most of the nerds who hopped onto it like it was my little pony or whatever. The dangerous mistake to make though is to generalize all transgendered people as messed up or misguided; the huge influx of trans goons was like the aspergers thing in that finding this condition and assigning it to yourself absolves you of responsibility for being a loser/not being sexually successful in the same way aspergers does, and passes on blame to some external Problem. I doubt most of these goony types had any gender/sexual identity questions floating around their heads before they saw some Trans Megathread or w/e
Edited by Skylark ()
Lessons posted:discipline posted:Lessons posted:
you think people have SRS to obtain government documents?I'm not really speaking about the motivations of people or a group of people who seek SRS surgery, which would be rather unfair. I'm speaking about structural forces. I'm asking what you would call the requirement of society to be seen as woman only once you undergo these medical procedures
you're ... missing something here. there are people who go through every manner of surgery imaginable and still are not recognized as their identified gender by society, (government documents aside). so while maybe we can talk about a pernicious influence of the medical industry on gender, and in fact we should, you can't really classify this as some sort of peculiar modern phenomenon, let alone the ultimate cause of the way individuals are gendered.
transgenderism is constituted in particular way which actually does it a modern phenomenon, in the most explicit and obvious way: we simply didn't have the technology to create transgendered people until recently. i don't think you can really project transgenderism back through history based on modern society's exclusivist gender modality. that doesn't follow at all. cross-gender identities and gender fluidity does have a history but it doesn't make a lot of sense to project social categories that are based on modern surgical procedures back into history. even though transgenderism isn't defined by having had SRS, the identity is still founded on it (post-op, pre-op, etc.) moreso than any transhistorical drive (the positing of which reveals a constitutive ahistorical teleology to your thoughts on the matter imo).
Skylark posted:Goethestein posted:
Transgenderism seems to have exploded all over the internet in the last 2 -3 years. Strangely about the same time that aspergers became a cliche and fell out of fashion. Probably just a coincidence, no way depressed nerds who are awkward in their bodies and social relations are just making up a new pathology. They gave female brains, so obviously in fact that an MRI to confirm is sillyThis is absolutely the case for most of the nerds who hopped onto it like it was my little pony or whatever. The dangerous mistake to generalize all transgendered people as messed up or misguided; the huge influx of trans goons was like the aspergers thing in that finding this condition and assigning it to yourself absolves you of responsibility for being a loser/not being sexually successful in the same way aspergers does, and passes on blame to some external Problem. I doubt most of these goony types had any gender/sexual identity questions floating around their heads before they saw some Trans Megathread or w/e
yes the thing that actually agitates me about troons is that because transpeople are such a minority and troons are so horribly antagonistic to any potential allies, it creates an atmosphere conducive to people just saying fuck it and writing all transpeople off as psychotic loonies or whatever. they are the most counterproductive politicizing element i've ever seen, if the CIA gave a shit about gender issues i'd suspect their involvement.
Crow posted:
troons are a transhistorical force, but it doesnt have anything to do with trannsexuality. it is more like a primordial Evil
Wow nice historicism you stupid dinosaur bird