littlegreenpills posted:in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else
which is why rich black and middle eastern people never face profiling or derogation of their "rights," no struggle but class struggle, the end. *closes book with a satisfying THWAP*
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VoxNihili posted:littlegreenpills posted:in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else
which is why rich black and middle eastern people never face profiling or derogation of their "rights," no struggle but class struggle, the end. *closes book with a satisfying THWAP*
Crow posted:VoxNihili posted:littlegreenpills posted:in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else
which is why rich black and middle eastern people never face profiling or derogation of their "rights," no struggle but class struggle, the end. *closes book with a satisfying THWAP*
u think racism is a substantial, freestanding form of bigotry alongside classism in the US? *posts pic of president obama* havent considered THIS yet, have you?
I
VOte.
Crow posted:Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.
VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.
the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christ
shriekingviolet posted:VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christ
the post i initially responded to was "in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else"
also, the whole argument that racism is NECESSARILY based in capitalism is sort of derailed by one crazy fact: there are racists and racist institutions in communist countries
no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted.
i didn't make that claim
im well aware that stating racial discrimination has a component outside of capitalism undermines, to some degree, the entire ideological construct that once held various leftist factions together. im more interested in the truth than in reinforcing my ideology.
VoxNihili posted:shriekingviolet posted:
VoxNihili posted:
Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.
the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christ
the post i initially responded to was "in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else"
also, the whole argument that racism is NECESSARILY based in capitalism is sort of derailed by one crazy fact: there are racists and racist institutions in communist countries
oh my god, no one has said that racism is based in capitalism as a necessary condition, are you hallucinating. i've said that the current structures of racism are inextricably tied to capitalism, they're not the same thing. for fuck's sake.
VoxNihili posted:im more interested in the truth than in reinforcing my ideology.
truth doesn't exist in the environment of a massive campaign directed towards the manipulation, distortion, and eradication of history, statistics, facts, art, emotions, souls. if you're seeking objective Truth you're seeking a prefabricated lie, good luck with that
also learn you some fucking history, the current structures and implementations of racist ideology are entirely a product of capitalist logic
what is it. what is their platform. what is their basis of action, what is their strategy. what are the material grievances they wish to address, and what are the material actions by which they mean to address them? is it the liberation from poverty through emancipation of oppressed labor and ownership of the means of production, locally and in the third world? is it the abolition of the racist prison system and the destruction of the racist legal institutions? is it the recognition and restitution of the mass genocide, physical and cultural, of indigenous populations? is it the systematic construction and restoration of vital infrastructure sabotaged by vindictive post-colonial regimes in the third world? the reeducation of white oppressors and wreckers? all of these things are vital platform pieces of legitimate movements worldwide, with whom we stand in solidarity. who are you raging against here.
what are the real actions necessary to address the racist hegemony of the current world order you are thinking of, that haven't been fought for desperately by organizations you are denigrating? in real existing antiracist organizations, the "inherited whiteness" of privilege granted to people of colour through wealth class privilege, and their active participation the machinery of oppression including racial oppression is a serious and legitimate problem. what is going on with your posts. what the fuck.
Urbandale posted:when leftists talk about 'race' god kicks a puppy
I don't see race anymore (untreated diabetes causes deterioration of vision)
VoxNihili posted:also:
no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted.
i didn't make that claim
im well aware that stating racial discrimination has a component outside of capitalism undermines, to some degree, the entire ideological construct that once held various leftist factions together. im more interested in the truth than in reinforcing my ideology.
trying to decompose racial discrimination into capitalism-derived vs. simple colour or culture hatred in some special truthful way is one of the stupidest things i can imagine doing. if a dark person is rich mostly no one gives a f
VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.
they're not 'equally poor' if they're also under occupation of their nation. it's not about income, it's about relation to the means of production, the black nation in the united states is an oppressed nation that bars it even more substantially from the means of produc ti on under capitalism than just 'being poor'
VoxNihili posted:shriekingviolet posted:VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christ
the post i initially responded to was "in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else"
also, the whole argument that racism is NECESSARILY based in capitalism is sort of derailed by one crazy fact: there are racists and racist institutions in communist countries
got any evidence of these claims? and does your evidence rely on the fact that bourgeois ideology, whether remnant, not yet addressed, or imported by imperial powers, doesn't instantly cease to exist with the establishment of socialism, and in fact is in direct contradiction to socialism and the power of the communist party? oh and
Crow posted:.custom278112{color:#FCC895 !important; background-color:#0B5951 !important; }VoxNihili posted:.custom278110{color:#000000 !important; background-color:#D8D8D8 !important; }shriekingviolet posted:.custom278106{color:#FCC895 !important; background-color:#0B5951 !important; }VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.
the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christthe post i initially responded to was "in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else"
also, the whole argument that racism is NECESSARILY based in capitalism is sort of derailed by one crazy fact: there are racists and racist institutions in communist countries
got any evidence of these claims? and does your evidence rely on the fact that bourgeois ideology, whether remnant, not yet addressed, or imported by imperial powers, doesn't instantly cease to exist with the establishment of socialism, and in fact is in direct contradiction to socialism and the power of the communist party? oh and
so racism in communist countries is merely a remnant of capitalism? and racism that happened before capitalism doesn't count because "the current system of racism is intrinsically tied up with capitalism"?
