NoFreeWill posted:

Crow posted:

I mean, if you think you can like create a capitalism separate from monopoly capitalism, then go ahead. But capitalism is a world system, that's like apocalyptically integrated and rapacious in its genocidal scope, so Uh good luck with that. You might as well arm the workers and build socialism instead.

actually it's killing less people than ever.

yeah you're completely bluffing. that is total bullshit

getfiscal posted:

dank_xiaopeng posted:

it's pr,etty obvious that the only reASon the comprador class in venezuela hasn't been able to stage a counterrevolution is because of armed people's militias. syriza should disarm the military and arm the squares now or thye're all gonna wind up in a black site getting enema-raped soon

the comprador class in venezuela came very close to winning the last presidential election.

yea even with imperial machinations they lost 'by a landslide' (bourgeois standards)

daddyholes posted:

does anyone know one of those poor artists who does twitter suggestions who will draw me a big cut gay MUD-scare-story voter intimidation motorcyclist with a gigantic bandito mustache and hammer and sickle handlebars on his ride

*wearing bald cap and dirty gators t-shirt and i have a comb under my nose* yes

daddyholes posted:

i don't know, that makes me feel a little better about them because he's obviously lying about trying to meet the euro targets and he doesn't care that it's obvious either

I do like his blase attitude but sadly

The outline agreement between Athens and its creditors in the single currency bloc to extend Greece’s rescue loans should help ease concerns that it was heading for the exit door from the euro.

In return, the country’s leftwing government has pledged not to roll back austerity measures attached to the rescue, and must submit, before the end of Monday, a list of reforms that it plans to make.

obviously I take everything "The Guardian" of liberalism says with a grain of salt but I haven't seen anything contradicting this as a capitulation to capital.

(Aris Hatzistefanou is a Greek journalist, creator of the radio and TV show Infowar and a writer for the newspaper Before, published by the New Left Current that participates in the ANTARSYA coalition. He was the co-creator of two widely viewed documentaries, Debtocracy and Catastroika, about the Greek economic and social crisis.)

WILL WE go down to Syntagma Square to support the government, many friends and readers asked me on the morning of January 5? Our answer can't be based on an emotional appeal. You don't go into the streets just because you are angry, but to achieve specific objectives. Let's start from the beginning.

There are significant problems with the government's strategy for negotiations on the debt, which derive from its leaders' desire to stay in the Eurozone and the decision not to move toward a more definite confrontation with the lenders.

As described by James Meadway of the New Economics Foundation, the two main proposals of Yanis Varoufakis--which don't include any debt forgiveness--suffer in important respects.

The first proposal from the Finance Minister is that the Greek debt held by the European Central Bank will be exchanged for "perpetual bonds," under which Greece will pay only a low interest rate and not repay the borrowed funds. Second, Varoufakis seems to be proposing a "growth clause" attached to debt repayments--meaning that Greece would pay back the lenders only when GDP growth exceeds a certain percentage--probably 3 percent.

As Meadway and other economists predicted, indirectly but clearly, the hope to get the ECB to agree to the first proposal has been shown to be a fantasy after its unequivocal statements last week rejecting any deviation from the current terms. With these statements, the ECB has shown itself to be a blind instrument of the German government, with a mission to crush any country that dares to differ with its economic line.

The second proposal is equally problematic because it still requires the government to maintain a primary budget surplus--the difference between revenues coming into the state (mainly through taxes) and expenditures going out (not including interest on the debt repayments)--of 1.5 percent.

In theory, Meadway believes SYRIZA could achieve this target with the reform of the tax system (essentially by getting the wealthy to pay). But something which no other government has wanted to do since the creation of the Greek state is supposed to be accomplished in a few months, all while the country has Berlin's revolver pointed at its head and while those who owe the taxes control all of the mainstream media.

SYRIZA is the only party in the government that can make the rich pay, and it is necessary to try. But this doesn't mean that it will succeed--and certainly not in the timeframe suggested.

Yet if the reforms to the tax system fail or are delayed, the only alternative that would maintain a budget surplus is a new cycle of austerity, which would undermine the government's political support in a very short time. Let us not forget that people usually don't revolt at the height of a crisis, but when their hopes sink. And right now, they hope.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

IN ESSENCE, however, the problem is not economic but political. As the New York Times columnist Paul Krugman explained, within the Eurozone, the hands of the Greek government are tied. That's why he always likened the euro to a "straitjacket."

As long as the Greek banking system is a hostage of the ECB to maintain liquidity, no government can be in a strong negotiating position. The head of the ECB will be able to cause a banking crisis that would threaten to topple the government in a matter of a few days.

Let us not forget that executives of the German Bundesbank have said that either the status quo or the Greek government will change. We can assume that they are determined the outcome is the latter.

Obviously, it is possible to carry out reforms that improve the conditions for Greek society while the country remains in the Eurozone. The financial elite of Europe could reach consensus on a temporary relaxation of the hold they have on Greece--before moving on to a new attack on workers in a few years' time. But they have no reason to do this today if Greece does not threaten them with unilateral cancellation of the debt, leaving the euro, and nationalizing the banks.

Does all this mean we should abandon Greece's first left-wing government to its fate if we disagree with its more moderate stance? Just the opposite--we must all be in the streets today and every day, proving that the extortion of the EU will not be allowed.

In the past, even conservative governments were forced, under popular pressure, to challenge the lenders. There is an even greater likelihood of this from SYRIZA, which has strong radical elements inside it.

The demonstrations in the streets do not mean we accept the moderation of the government's leaders or the dictatorship of the EU. They mean we support the government by removing the option of surrender.

Crow posted:

.custom273362{}NoFreeWill posted:and i think the resurgence of nationalism in europe isn't just in response to the financial warfare of the eurozone and cultural fears of immigration but also very real worries about future ecological crisis.

the 'resurgence of nationalism' you're talking about is white supremacist and fascist, and that is actually a tool of the imperial bourgeoisie. it has about as much to do with 'very real worries about future ecological crisis' as the Nazis did with ecological concerns: http://revolutionaryecology.com/2013/12/05/j-sakai-the-green-nazi-an-investigation-into-fascist-ideology/

most of it's fascist, but there's also some economic leftish nationalism IE Syriza and Podemos and others eg Catalan and Scottish separatists

although clearly I was wrong about Syriza doing the right thing wrt the bailout

783 million people do not have access to clean water and almost 2.5 billion do not have access to adequate sanitation.

6 to 8 million people die annually from the consequences of disasters and water-related diseases.

http://www.unwater.org/water-cooperation-2013/water-cooperation/facts-and-figures/en/

Around one-third of the urban population in developing countries – nearly one billion people – lives in slums, according to estimates. UN-Habitat estimates the world's slum population will be 889 million by 2010. Between 2000 and 2010, the number of slum dwellers increased by six million every year.

http://www.citiesalliance.org/node/2195

Total death toll from the conflict (1998–2004) was estimated to be 3·9 million. Mortality rate was higher in unstable eastern provinces, showing the effect of insecurity. Most deaths were from easily preventable and treatable illnesses rather than violence. Regression analysis suggested that if the effects of violence were removed, all-cause mortality could fall to almost normal rates.

http://conflict.lshtm.ac.uk/media/DRC_mort_2003_2004_Coghlan_Lancet_2006.pdf

Total Refugees and Internally Displaced people in Iraq in 2015: 2,047,700

http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e486426.html

Ukraine internal displacement nears 1 million as fighting escalates in Donetsk region

http://www.unhcr.org/54d4a2889.html

Back in 2001, a UNICEF-IRC study had already claimed 3.2 million unnecessary deaths due to capitalist restoration. The Lancet study cites other figures, with up to "10 million missing men because of system change." As a result, adult mortality rates soared, up almost 13% in Russia, with much of the increase attributable to the mass unemployment that followed the collapse in state enterprises. The study noted, "the Russian population lost nearly 5 years of life expectancy between 1991 and 1994."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/01/18/685673/-Lancet-Study-Confirms-Millions-Died-From-Shock-Therapy


and of course why bother counting all the death due to easily preventable diseases, sanitation problems, malnutrition and degraded infrastructure because of the imperial system, right? those are, uh, unrelated. besides, they're nothing like the --[pulls number out of ass]--- TWO HUNDRED MILLION MURDERED by the SAVAGE TYRANT KNOWN AS GENGHIS KHAN

Edited by Crow (Feb. 21, 2015 06:41:31)

daddyholes posted:

i wholeheartedly believe that the death caused by the sensational invasion of pop culture icon genghis khan were indeed somewhere between a vague large estimate and maybe around two times that vague estimate

Thats science dude. Its science. Says so right there in the wikipedia and in this TED talk.