#561

NoFreeWill posted:

prikryl posted:

"""Operating Costs""""

wait no. i don't want to join an organization now



lol

#562

c_man posted:

i show jools' article to literally everyone i find who knows what the new inquiry is



same, if by "article" you mean his dick pic

#563
the genuine article
#564
lots of people & communities in ireland are joining organisations now because the government is installing water meters in everyones home as part of an imf deal

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbpWYukqsFonxYxv2tF7tlQ/videos

there is nice linking between dublin & detroit going on
#565
its cool that there are some upsides to the fact that everywhere is gradually becoming the same shithole
#566
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#567
stop doing that its weird. why do you only do that with me. what's your deal.
#568
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#569

stegosaurus posted:

stop doing that its weird. why do you only do that with me. what's your deal.



way to just brush aside tom and terry and bippy. talk about consistently erasing class

#570
also my name really is 'emaluaelaborlul' so he does it to me too
#571
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#572
I joined the IWW. Pretty cool, helped em get 70 members in my large canadian city, and there's all sorts of anti-austerity business going on.
#573

Red_Canadian posted:

I joined the IWW. Pretty cool, helped em get 70 members in my large canadian city, and there's all sorts of anti-austerity business going on.


Nice one comrade. Are you a member of any other union? Just curious. I read the IWW thing about dual carders and thought it was interesting.

#574
No, my last job was unionized but my current one isn't. Only 9 bucks a month. It's based on your wage rate. It seemed an interesting meeting, the last march on halloween went really well, 10 thousand people, its where I met these guys.
#575
Sweet. The wobblies have a presence here but it's not huge. I've been considering joining.
#576
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#577
haha you sure can, tpaine, you sure can
#578
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#579
I'm in an org. It's cool.
#580
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#581

Urbandale posted:

I'm in an org. It's cool.

welcome to tHE rHizzonE.

#582
thanks
#583
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#584
trotskyism is in the eye of the beholder next to the meth so youll have to kill the beast inside yourself to really get both
#585
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#586
as long as we are kickin it old school, what do you all think about ron paul?
#587
I don't know anything about Mali, sorry
#588
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#589
do you uphold the universality of protracted peoples war? why or why not? show your work
#590
im a fan of PPW but not UPPW. the most visible org that promotes UPPW in the west is the PCR-RCP, which while not a former member of RIM upholds the RIM line on every issue I can think of right now. their attempts to actually argue UPPW have lead to a lot of really questionable stuff, like JMP (their most visible member) echoing the nPCI in Italy in its claim that the Russian Revolution was an untheorized application of PPW.

From MLM Mayhem

JMP posted:

As I have noted elsewhere, and following the nPCI, the theory of PPW explains the Russian Revolution better than the theory of insurrection. Here the argument is that there was an untheorized PPW that took place in Russia, beginning in 1905, where the insurrection was just part of a larger chain of revolutionary struggle.



This is important for them to argue because if the Russian Rev is an application of PPW then its easier for them to argue its universal quality, however the organization itself has yet to publish anything (at least in english, maybe getfiscal can read their french stuff i dunno) substantiating this claim.

its unfortunate. because the bulk of their recent attention on PPW is focused on how its universal, their public documents on how PPW is supposed to be waged in the first place have yet to flesh out the concept, which is critical since we're operating in the first world.

#591
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#592
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#593
Really the only two options I see for a successful US socialist state at this point are to either follow Venezuela's PSUV or PPW, and both have their rather large problems. Regardless, they both share the requirement of building extensive base areas, geographically and demographically, in the oppressed nations.

Oh, and cuz i didnt say it earlier, im in the PSL and IWW.
#594
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#595
oh pissle, i get it now
#596
yeah idk who started that. show yourself knave
#597

Urbandale posted:

This is important for them to argue because if the Russian Rev is an application of PPW then its easier for them to argue its universal quality, however the organization itself has yet to publish anything (at least in english, maybe getfiscal can read their french stuff i dunno) substantiating this claim.



Uh they haven't published anything substantiating this claim because they have never made it. the official line of the pcr-rcp is that the russian revolution was qualitatively distinct to the theory of ppw, a process identified by them as the "october road." jmp has argued otherwise, and while he might be the most visible proponent of the pcr-rcp on this corner of the internet, i don't think he is actually a member and he specifically contradicts their line on this point

#598
Members of the PCR-RCP publicly call themselves supporters of the party as a means of attempting to dodge state surveillance as PCR-RCP has been attacked in the past. JMP has called himself a supporter many times, and the friends I have inside the party have alluded he is also a member. That said, it is true that to my knowledge this argument contradicts PCR-RCP's line. However, there are a growing number of cadre inside the party that have picked up this line and are arguing it rather forcefully online and internally, partially due to JMP's inordinate amount of influence on the younger rank and file (many of whom only heard about the party because of JMP's blog in the first place) and because of PCR-RCP's attempts to recreate RIM with other ex-RIM parties, nPCI being one of these.

So while you are technically correct that it is not the PCR-RCP's line, it is a relatively important aspect that must be argued if their claim of universality is to hold any weight and I believe it will either become official party theory or remain an ideological fault line inside the party until its resolved.
#599

Urbandale posted:

PCR-RCP's attempts to recreate RIM with other ex-RIM parties, nPCI being one of these.



to be quite clear on this, the universality of ppw was at no point the characteristic or dominant line within the revolutionary internationalist movement. it was a theory put forward by the peruvian communist party (albeit with many qualifications), who were admittedly perhaps the single most influential group in the foundation of the rim, but it was not adopted by even a significant minority of member parties, more commonly this line has been outright rejected. there have been attempts to establish a neo-rim in recent years that include the adoption of this line but none of these parties, at least to my knowledge, are actually former members (with the exception of one of the many factions that emerged from the dissolution of the pcp - e: and the maoist communist party of turkey & north kurdistan)

Urbandale posted:

So while you are technically correct that it is not the PCR-RCP's line, it is a relatively important aspect that must be argued if their claim of universality is to hold any weight and I believe it will either become official party theory or remain an ideological fault line inside the party until its resolved.



this first point isn't true at all because the argument put forward by the pcr-rcp actively relied on the designation of a distinct october road from which ppw could be distinguished. that is, their arguments to some degree centred around the inadequacy of current and historical attempts to follow the october road in the imperialist nations and the provision of ppw as an alternative model capable of developing beyond these failures. in that sense this wasn't an important aspect that needed to be argued because doing so would undermine the arguments they did make

you definitely know more about the internal organisation and membership of the pcr-rcp than i do and it might be true that their line is shifting towards that of jmp & the npci but i don't think it's correct at all to suggest that this shift is some fruition of the unspoken arguments made previously by the party (or the advocacy of uppw in general) when these ideas are actively opposed to each other

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#600

blinkandwheeze posted:

to be quite clear on this, the universality of ppw was at no point the characteristic or dominant line within the revolutionary internationalist movement. it was a theory put forward by the peruvian communist party (albeit with many qualifications), who were admittedly perhaps the single most influential group in the foundation of the rim, but it was not adopted by even a significant minority of member parties, more commonly this line has been outright rejected. there have been attempts to establish a neo-rim in recent years that include the adoption of this line but none of these parties, at least to my knowledge, are actually former members (with the exception of one of the many factions that emerged from the dissolution of the pcp)



this is true, my mistake, though there are ex rim parties involved in neo-rim such as the C(m)PA in Afghanistan and at least meetings with the pro-people's war side of the maoist split in Nepal.

blinkandwheeze posted:

this first point isn't true at all because the argument put forward by the pcr-rcp actively relied on the designation of a distinct october road from which ppw could be distinguished.



i agree that the current PCR-RCP line relies on the Russian Rev being interpreted as an insurrection, but only for the name. in one of the old People's War mags they claimed every attempt to make a revolution after Russia but before China failed because it was an attempt to recreate the Russian Rev, but this is merely a way of saying they utilized the strategy of insurrection. though this claim has issues, it doesnt have to rely on the Russian Rev being interpreted as an insurrection, and in fact if they can claim Russia for their side then they would be able to argue, as im told nPCI already is (though i cant read italian so i have to take the word of friends in italy), that insurrection is the policy of failed revolution in every instance. this is a much stronger claim of universality, and is much more appealing, since it can actually claim to be universal, as opposed to the currently-existing PCR-RCP line.