le_nelson_mandela_face posted:criticizing chomsky for not offering methods for how we're gonna smash capitalism presumes that there is any conceivably successful method, which is pretty funny
Funny how people can imagine the end of the world via SuperVolcano in Yellowknife, or some sort of lethal Flu plague, yet we can't imagine the end of capitalism. Makes you think.
gyrofry posted:Avram Noam Chomsky in 1953 spent six weeks at the HaZore'a kibbutz in northern Israel; although enjoying himself, Chomsky was appalled by the pro-Stalinist trend that he thought pervaded the kibbutz's leftist community
wow he really is the worst person on the planet....
gyrofry posted:Avram Noam Chomsky in 1953 spent six weeks at the HaZore'a kibbutz in northern Israel; although enjoying himself, Chomsky was appalled by the pro-Stalinist trend that he thought pervaded the kibbutz's leftist community
source? google turns up this thread and nothing else.
HenryKrinkle posted:gyrofry posted:Avram Noam Chomsky in 1953 spent six weeks at the HaZore'a kibbutz in northern Israel; although enjoying himself, Chomsky was appalled by the pro-Stalinist trend that he thought pervaded the kibbutz's leftist community
source? google turns up this thread and nothing else.
it's from his wikipedia (subsection University Life):
In 1947, Chomsky entered into a romantic relationship with Carol Doris Schatz, whom he had known since they were toddlers. They were married in 1949, and remained together until her death in 2008. They considered moving to Israel, and in 1953 spent six weeks at the HaZore'a kibbutz; although enjoying himself, Chomsky was appalled by the Jewish nationalism and anti-Arab racism he encountered in the country, and the pro-Stalinist trend that he thought pervaded the kibbutz's leftist community
vampirarchist posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/HAPPIDROME-Part-One
it's been interesting to see the informal worldwide anarchist network rise in support of the PYG, tbh.
Petrol posted:it's been interesting to see the informal worldwide anarchist network rise in support of the PYG, tbh.
well of course, the english language press has told them to do it. also the kurds dont have a state yet so they are pure and holy, when they get one itll be time for anarchists to learn about how they arent uniformly pro-trans
getfiscal posted:kibbutzim are sad-ass places now. almost all of them use cheap labour to do the farm work. but like cheap thai migrants and shit. they still have a veneer of leftism but that just means most of them dislike likud and vote for labor or kadima. they are still a source of support for meretz but like yeah, pretty sad.
is there a thing i can read
Edited by cars ()
daddyholes posted:people forget that whatever you think of marxist alt press, it exists, while anarchist alt press consists of like, reading an indymedia post about a cable news story, reading an infoshop post about the incredible anarchist success of a protest of the cable news story, reading five pages of a master's paper on something that happened in another country and then writing a weirdlord trifold pamphlet on "what is anarchism" that neither you nor anyone else will read
this isn't true and i'm actually starting to get a little tired of this caricature of anarchism that keeps getting thrown around. it strikes me as sectarian considering the fact that anarchist alt press actually does exist regardless of your disinterest, and everything you accuse it of works equally well as a caricature of marxist alt press.
anyway, wrt western anarchist support for the ypg, 'the english language press has told them to do it' is frankly wrong. anarchists were talking about, and acting in support of, the ypg long before anyone else in the west gave a fuck, and importantly, without calling for western intervention, which is obviously the motivation for mainstream western attention.
daddyholes posted:is there a thing i can read
well even my info there was outdated a bit, i forgot kadima exploded and that meretz did slightly better because of their partial association with the social protests i guess. i'm not sure. for some reason i was once fascinated by kibbutz culture and wanted to go there to live in like real socialism, even though i didn't really know or learn anything about it.
Petrol posted:daddyholes posted:people forget that whatever you think of marxist alt press, it exists, while anarchist alt press consists of like, reading an indymedia post about a cable news story, reading an infoshop post about the incredible anarchist success of a protest of the cable news story, reading five pages of a master's paper on something that happened in another country and then writing a weirdlord trifold pamphlet on "what is anarchism" that neither you nor anyone else will read
this isn't true and i'm actually starting to get a little tired of this caricature of anarchism that keeps getting thrown around. it strikes me as sectarian considering the fact that anarchist alt press actually does exist regardless of your disinterest, and everything you accuse it of works equally well as a caricature of marxist alt press.
anyway, wrt western anarchist support for the ypg, 'the english language press has told them to do it' is frankly wrong. anarchists were talking about, and acting in support of, the ypg long before anyone else in the west gave a fuck, and importantly, without calling for western intervention, which is obviously the motivation for mainstream western attention.
As far as I can tell the only reason anarchists became interested in the conflict is because the jailed leader of the PKK said he read some Bookchin and had abandoned Marxism-Leninism. Despite the fact it's not clear at all what's different between the PKK's old guerrilla war and their new 'anarchist' war, how much this dude in jail actually matters, or any concrete analysis of the propaganda function of beautiful white kurdish women in the american media and the actual collaboration between the YPG and the american-backed 'FSA' (which are actually CIA). Anarchists are fickle and easily pandered to by groups like the Zapatistas and Argentinian anti-debt squatters, it always seems to me the devotion to anarchism is more important than the actual importance of these movement or their effectiveness.
You seem on the right side of the issue but most anarchists as far as I can tell oppose "both Washington and Damascus" without any analysis of the desire of imperialism to break up the region's borders and also rob the wealth of Syria. This seems to be a fundamental problem with analyzing power (or hierarchy) instead of the mode of production and the capital-labor relation as the determinant instance for politics.
babyhueypnewton posted:As far as I can tell the only reason anarchists became interested in the conflict is because the jailed leader of the PKK said he read some Bookchin and had abandoned Marxism-Leninism. Despite the fact it's not clear at all what's different between the PKK's old guerrilla war and their new 'anarchist' war, how much this dude in jail actually matters, or any concrete analysis of the propaganda function of beautiful white kurdish women in the american media and the actual collaboration between the YPG and the american-backed 'FSA' (which are actually CIA). Anarchists are fickle and easily pandered to by groups like the Zapatistas and Argentinian anti-debt squatters, it always seems to me the devotion to anarchism is more important than the actual importance of these movement or their effectiveness.
You seem on the right side of the issue but most anarchists as far as I can tell oppose "both Washington and Damascus" without any analysis of the desire of imperialism to break up the region's borders and also rob the wealth of Syria. This seems to be a fundamental problem with analyzing power (or hierarchy) instead of the mode of production and the capital-labor relation as the determinant instance for politics.
Well, again, I don't think that's fair at all. Even if western anarchist interest in the PKK was sparked by their 'anarchist turn', that obviously predates the present conflict in Syria. My understanding is that organisation in Kurdish territory within Syria is a genuine bottom-up system of self management inspired by Bookchin, so it's not a question of whether the Turkish war against the PKK is somehow different.
It's rather cynical to dismiss all of this simply because western imperialism has once again found the Kurds temporarily useful for propaganda purposes. The Kurds surely have their own quite valid reasons for challenging the Sykes-Picot borders. Supporting their struggle - and I mean genuinely supporting it, not just paying attention while the Guardian does - does not require supporting western intervention (or rather, the escalation thereof). Obviously, it doesn't mean that for me. Nor does it mean that for the anarchists I'm acquainted with, who rather organise direct material support for the YPG through their own channels.
But daddyholes told me not to take you guys seriously on this stuff so maybe I should drop it.
The only winner is US, believe it or not… Since, with the Kobane, it legitimizes its operation against IS on both international and regional levels, found a very strategic ‘partner’ that is Turkey’s Kurds, and know feels free to dictate its position to PYD… Before the attack on Kobane, Reuters revealed that US considered arming Syria’s Kurdish groups but with a precondition “break your alliance with Assad” http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/08/us-syria-crisis-kurds-idUSKBN0H30XJ20140908 And those demands are not new of course, as Foreign Policy revealed Washington has been pushing Kurds to adapt this policy for over two years.
Now the dreams of US are fulfilled thanks to IS. The outcome of PYD-US talks are still vague, but as US intensifies its air campaign on IS targets in and around Kobane, one thing is obvious, what US brought to table was accepted or at least partly accepted by PYD delegation. Note that right after this direct talk, PYD leader Saleh Muslim went Iraqi Kurdistan and attended a meeting with Barzani and Barzani backed Syrian Kurdish politicians. In this meeting PYD promised ‘a power sharing’ with Barzani backed groups on the administration of Rojava.
it's amazing how everything, chaotic and meaningless as it may seem at first, is falling into place behind the US agenda.
chickeon posted:maybe this isn't appropriate for the thread but what's wrong with the zapatistas? I've heard from various people that they';ve somehow become "a joke" or something but I've never read any substantial criticism of what exactly went/is wrong with them. last EZLN thing I read I believe was someone slamming Hedges for holding them up as an example of nonviolent resistance
i don't see anything wrong w/ them except white gringos using them to bash more militant leftist groups like FARC and Leftists Who Actually Have Power (Maduro, Morales, etc.)
HenryKrinkle posted:http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2014/10/who-will-win-in-kobane-ayn-al-arab.html
that makes a good point about the effect on erdogan - that the focus on kobane has helped push the western image of him being behind ISIS. but i think we can be clearer: erdogan is being singularly portrayed as the turkish force behind ISIS as opposed to, say, MİT (turkish intelligence), which is heavily linked to CIA and NATO intelligence, and actually directly implicated in facilitating ISIS. now erdogan can be the fall guy without affecting any of the structures within turkey that were actually resonsible for carrying out western policy. meanwhile, Kurds will once again be crushed as soon as the world's eye wanders. in fact, that's exactly what's continuing to happen within turkey right now.