Lykourgos posted:
woah woah woah, if someone is going to have an epiphany of some sort and convert, they better try the classics LONG before they go for some modern religion. This is totally unacceptable, there is no excuse to just give yourself over to a religious movement before trying philosophy; there is plenty of direction and goodness in the classics, don't take the easy way out
bruv im a middle class brit do u really think i wasnt aware of the classics
I wish I was born stupid
deadken posted:
bruv im a middle class brit do u really think i wasnt aware of the classics
No, you know about them, but that doesn't mean that you tried really hard to understand or believe in the moral/ethical philosophies of the ancient world. There's a difference between knowing something exists, and being given to it. Also, think about all those christians who know that ancient texts exist, but will thoughtlessly say that without god there is no right or wrong and everything is subjective, seemingly unaware of the content of ancient works.
Point is, do not, whatever you do, give yourself over to some popular, monotheistic church. It's the easy choice because every man and dog has someone preaching to him these days, but don't do it because there are better choices you can make.
discipline posted:
Aristotle is considered a prophet in Islam
Okay I didn't know that, but it doesn't cure the major faults of the religion. The catholic church loves Aristotle, too, and I love various aspects of that non-democratic theology, but I would never tell someone to become catholic unless it was as a last resort to stop them becoming a relativist and/or to make them know their role.
Lykourgos posted:deadken posted:
bruv im a middle class brit do u really think i wasnt aware of the classicsNo, you know about them, but that doesn't mean that you tried really hard to understand or believe in the moral/ethical philosophies of the ancient world. There's a difference between knowing something exists, and being given to it. Also, think about all those christians who know that ancient texts exist, but will thoughtlessly say that without god there is no right or wrong and everything is subjective, seemingly unaware of the content of ancient works.
the morality of the ancient world was fucking awful though? from platonic abstractionism to aristotelian golden mean bullshit to the vile reactionary nonsense of the stoics its all utterly facile, without any critical attention paid to the categories they apply or the wider social context of their ethical posturings. i never tried hard to believe in them because theyre entirely without value
deadken posted:
heraclitus and diogenes were kewl, p much every other greek can suck a big ole dick, even epicurus, fuck him
i like socrates
how does a fake christian miss out on the opportunity to hold up socrates as a martyr jeez u really havent thought this through have you brother
Lessons posted:
read atheism in christianity by ernst bloch. read it. read it
deadken posted:
christianity is the only major religion in world history that arose outside the State apparatus, of course it was later captured by the State and made subservient to it but even now traces of its radicalism remains, more than any other religion christianity is a palimpsest, the potentialities for reinscription are almost infinite, while its possible to make radical readings of other religions only with christianity does such a reading actually constitute a reversion to the essence of the religion. only a communist can be a good christian, only a christian can be a good communist
uh huh
if you find an ebook of that ernst bloch pls show me bc its hard to find
deadken posted:Lessons posted:read atheism in christianity by ernst bloch. read it. read it
Read The God Delusion, by Richtopher Ditchkins.
deadken posted:pls elaborate.
deadken posted:
the morality of the ancient world was fucking awful though? from platonic abstractionism to aristotelian golden mean bullshit to the vile reactionary nonsense of the stoics its all utterly facile, without any critical attention paid to the categories they apply or the wider social context of their ethical posturings. i never tried hard to believe in them because theyre entirely without value
Yet the morality of the ancient world wasn't "fucking awful" or entirely without value or anything you just said. If we're just going to post insults and compliments at each other then this discussion will have little value; I already know you presently have a negative view of everything except some sliver of modernist thought.
The point is that you shouldn't seriously consider becoming a muslim or joining any major religious movement, because not only are they wrong, but I know that you know that they don't hold up under scrutiny. It is the easy way out; I tell you to revisit the ancient works because I know that they are the closest you will come to goodness, and, unlike in respect to the major religions, I don't think that you are properly aware of whether the classics are right or wrong.
Edited by Lykourgos ()
babyfinland posted:
uh huh
if you find an ebook of that ernst bloch pls show me bc its hard to find
i have an actual paper copy, it might be in fvckverso tho
deadken posted:babyfinland posted:
uh huh
if you find an ebook of that ernst bloch pls show me bc its hard to findi have an actual paper copy, it might be in fvckverso tho
mail to me
discipline posted:
Tell me about the major faults of the religion
Muslims apparently believe that the Koran is the word of God. At any rate, if you're expecting me to whip out a list of faults, then I'm going to have to disappoint you because I don't keep notes on every disagreement I have with Islam, or Christianity, or Judaism, or any of the other countless theologies that I disagree with. It's easier to have a Muslim explain their religious beliefs and ideals, and then point out why they're wrong. Given that there is talk here of an apostate giving himself over to Islam, that is presumably the way things should go here.
babyfinland posted:
slavery and pederasty: correct or incorrect? the debate rages on
That post is so full of ignorance that it is infuriating to read. Yes there was slavery in the ancient world, and yes, many great thinkers said that slavery was an appropriate institution at the time. Yet the question of slavery for them was cut into several different stages: there was the upper level considerations of ethical theory and metaphysics, and then there was their lower, practical observations and methods. You can accept the morality of the ancients and reject slavery on a number of different grounds, ranging from modern practicality to saying that the moral understanding was correct but the low level observation and application was incorrect.
As for pederasty you don't know what you're talking about full stop if you think that is a legitimate challenge to the ancient thinkers.
Lykourgos posted:babyfinland posted:
slavery and pederasty: correct or incorrect? the debate rages onThat post is so full of ignorance that it is infuriating to read. Yes there was slavery in the ancient world, and yes, many great thinkers said that slavery was an appropriate institution at the time. Yet the question of slavery for them was cut into several different stages: there was the upper level considerations of ethical theory and metaphysics, and then there was their lower, practical observations and methods. You can accept the morality of the ancients and reject slavery on a number of different grounds, ranging from modern practicality to saying that the moral understanding was correct but the low level observation and application was incorrect.
As for pederasty you don't know what you're talking about full stop if you think that is a legitimate challenge to the ancient thinkers.
Interesting
deadken posted:
i think the Poncey Platonist Paradigm in which metaphysical concerns are considered somehow 'higher' than actual problems such as slavery is a big part of why i hate the greeks tbh
what's your stance on practically every Christian theologian until at least the eighteenth century then
deadken posted:
tonight has been incredibly depressing. i went to this party + am slightly drunk but not drink enough to actually have fun + one of the girls im seeing was there but we couldnt do anything because shes looking after her friend and i couldnt get talking to anyone else because she was there..... but underneath all these bullshit petty worries i just feel an incredible sense of aimlessness, i'm living every day in vague order with no guiding narrative, just kinda drifting...... so pomo
Beneath this numb, angsty exterior is a numb, angsty core
