rice9 posted:

Lessons posted:

fleights posted:

THIS IS BECAUSE COMMUNISTS ONLY GET A REAL "VIEW" OF WHAT SOCIALIST SOCIETY WILL BE LIKE THROUGH THE REVOLUTIONARY WORKER'S STRUGGLE AND ITS SEIZURES OF POWER AND SUCCESSES,

This doesn't apply in this situation because it wasn't worker's strikes; he's talking about the 1972 lockout by Chilean business owners that was accompanied by strikes by petty-bourgeois truck drivers and a few others, which was defeated by the Chilean state. You'd know that if you'd watched the vid but you didn't so oh well, learning is for gaylords. But is what you're saying true in general? Probably not IMHO. Lenin thought that trade unionism was essentially hidebound by its focus on immediate gains for a narrow constituency which could never become revolutionary on its own, and he was probably right. That's not to say workers have nothing useful to say about a revolutionary socialist transformation of society, quite the opposite, but rather that exclusive focus on the economic struggle between workers and capitalist was necessarily limiting on real revolutionary communist struggle.

MARX ONLY KNEW THAT THE STATE HAD TO BE SMASHED AFTER THE EXPERIENCE OF THE PARIS COMMUNE, TODAY, WITH NO REAL MASS MOVEMENT OF THE EXPLOITED PEOPLES APART FROM REACTIONARY GROUPINGS AND RIGHT WING POPULISM,

This is just nonsense, reactionaries and right-wing "populism" are by no means "movements of exploited peoples". Like if you look at e.g. UKIP in Britain their voters are actually more well off than leftists or center-leftists like Labour or even the Greens, this whole thing about about the right wing being working class is and always has been nothing but bourgeois propaganda. You're also ignoring basically the whole world outside of the US, Canada and Western Europe when you say left mass movements don't exist but welp, First World Marxists.

MARXISTS CAN ONLY LEARN AND EDUCATE THEMSELVES WHILST AT THE SAME TIME CONNECTING WITH WHAT LIMITED EMBRYOS OF RESISTANCE EXIST TODAY, WE MUST NOT TRY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT OUR UTOPIAN SOCIETY WILL BE AMAZING, BUT THAT THROUGH THEIR STRUGGLES THE ONLY LOGICAL OUTCOME IS THE SEIZURE OF POWER

You approach this like no one in the last hundred years of socialist organizing has thought of the brilliant idea of "hey, let's go out and organize the workers!" There have been hundreds of groups that have done this, are doing this, and while its certainly a good thing it doesn't necessarily create successful organizations let alone mass movements. And anyway if you want to understand why socialism is stalled don't look at communist tactics, look at history. Most people's views of socialism are informed by two things, A) The USSR collapsed and B) The Western capitalist countries are the richest and most successful in the world. Honestly I think the ~material conditions~ are going to have to change drastically before we can make any headway, especially in the West, but regardless the central questions aren't about communist "messaging" or whatever it's entirely about the supposed inevitability of capitalism.

So what do you do? Try to join the naxalites? Move to somewhere you can actually do something? Venezuela? Cuba?

nobody knows the answer to this question because of the lack of a mass working class movement

Panopticon posted:

become a jehova's witness, they have lots of pamphlets, plus trinitarianism makes no sense at all

>:O rude

TheIneff posted:

lol deng what did you expect "TheSocialistsCookbook.pdf" ?

2. Making Proletarian Revolution Using Only Items Found In A Hardware Store By the Jolly Todger
It's amazing how much power to defeat capitalism can be found in the average hardware store. Unionizing hardware stores can be a great place to start forming working class identity because of the availability of...

rice9 posted:

Lessons posted:

fleights posted:

THIS IS BECAUSE COMMUNISTS ONLY GET A REAL "VIEW" OF WHAT SOCIALIST SOCIETY WILL BE LIKE THROUGH THE REVOLUTIONARY WORKER'S STRUGGLE AND ITS SEIZURES OF POWER AND SUCCESSES,

This doesn't apply in this situation because it wasn't worker's strikes; he's talking about the 1972 lockout by Chilean business owners that was accompanied by strikes by petty-bourgeois truck drivers and a few others, which was defeated by the Chilean state. You'd know that if you'd watched the vid but you didn't so oh well, learning is for gaylords. But is what you're saying true in general? Probably not IMHO. Lenin thought that trade unionism was essentially hidebound by its focus on immediate gains for a narrow constituency which could never become revolutionary on its own, and he was probably right. That's not to say workers have nothing useful to say about a revolutionary socialist transformation of society, quite the opposite, but rather that exclusive focus on the economic struggle between workers and capitalist was necessarily limiting on real revolutionary communist struggle.

MARX ONLY KNEW THAT THE STATE HAD TO BE SMASHED AFTER THE EXPERIENCE OF THE PARIS COMMUNE, TODAY, WITH NO REAL MASS MOVEMENT OF THE EXPLOITED PEOPLES APART FROM REACTIONARY GROUPINGS AND RIGHT WING POPULISM,

This is just nonsense, reactionaries and right-wing "populism" are by no means "movements of exploited peoples". Like if you look at e.g. UKIP in Britain their voters are actually more well off than leftists or center-leftists like Labour or even the Greens, this whole thing about about the right wing being working class is and always has been nothing but bourgeois propaganda. You're also ignoring basically the whole world outside of the US, Canada and Western Europe when you say left mass movements don't exist but welp, First World Marxists.

MARXISTS CAN ONLY LEARN AND EDUCATE THEMSELVES WHILST AT THE SAME TIME CONNECTING WITH WHAT LIMITED EMBRYOS OF RESISTANCE EXIST TODAY, WE MUST NOT TRY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT OUR UTOPIAN SOCIETY WILL BE AMAZING, BUT THAT THROUGH THEIR STRUGGLES THE ONLY LOGICAL OUTCOME IS THE SEIZURE OF POWER

You approach this like no one in the last hundred years of socialist organizing has thought of the brilliant idea of "hey, let's go out and organize the workers!" There have been hundreds of groups that have done this, are doing this, and while its certainly a good thing it doesn't necessarily create successful organizations let alone mass movements. And anyway if you want to understand why socialism is stalled don't look at communist tactics, look at history. Most people's views of socialism are informed by two things, A) The USSR collapsed and B) The Western capitalist countries are the richest and most successful in the world. Honestly I think the ~material conditions~ are going to have to change drastically before we can make any headway, especially in the West, but regardless the central questions aren't about communist "messaging" or whatever it's entirely about the supposed inevitability of capitalism.

So what do you do? Try to join the naxalites? Move to somewhere you can actually do something? Venezuela? Cuba?

Oh yeah? I'm an anti-imperialist, personally.

Agnus_Dei posted:

Rhizzone is actually an org. Zoners should expand the membership of the site through standard business roles such as product, engineering, marketing, customer support, legal, management, etc. The first order of business should be finding a seed investment round by wearing a suit and wining and dining venture capitalists. You're going to need a heavily refined slideshow presentation which is easy to follow, has nothing wasteful in it and hits all the necessary points in about 2 minutes. To really see results you'd probably have to appoint someone familiar with this sort of thing to be your chief executive officer.