#201
Post rating: +
ohhh, right, you're conflating the anonymous savagery of war in Syria (sourced by a well-known propaganda lackey for empire, naturally) that is flooded and overdetermined by imperial intervention with well-ingrained tropes about oriental dictators as some absolute wielders of totalitarian violence. gotcha
#202
Post rating: -----

Crow posted:

ohhh, right, you're conflating the anonymous savagery of war in Syria (sourced by a well-known propaganda lackey for empire, naturally) that is flooded and overdetermined by imperial intervention with well-ingrained tropes about oriental dictators as some wielders of totalitarian violence. gotcha


You are so fucking pathetic lol

#203
Post rating: +
it really doesn't surprise me that you are in the same class of white supremacists as those manning the state department, at all. Go directly to gbs
#204
Post rating: -
"This poster is a racist and a white supremacist" muttered the crazy man as he slamtyped a post about anonymous Syrian savagery into his mechanical keyboard
#205
Post rating: +
Actually, come to think of it, some white guy ironically obsessed with anime is probably ur-Orientalism, Incarnate Sword of the Holy White Race. *bows deeply & mutters entire ff8 zell dialogue in revernece* Hotdogs
#206
Post rating: -----
Stupid crow trolled by anime av like a thousand noobs before him, he's obviously not one of those smart crows. DUmbass crow go to bed. Anime horsey.




.Bye~!
#207
Post rating: +
Look, man, sometimes I like you. But I've been doing this irony thing longer than you. You could say its a bit of the ole jungian leaking of the unconscious in to the conscious. But whatever you say, this: https://twitter.com/thug_lessons/media is clearly more than a passing fancy. It is a serious problem. You got that, and you got christopher hitchens. I just want you to get help man. Its fucked up
#208
Post rating: -

Crow posted:

Look, man, sometimes I like you. But I've been doing this irony thing longer than you. You could say its a bit of the ole jungian leaking of the unconscious in to the conscious. But whatever you say, this: https://twitter.com/thug_lessons/media is clearly more than a passing fancy. It is a serious problem. You got that, and you got christopher hitchens. I just want you to get help man. Its fucked up


I'm looking though here, and I'm seeing a lot of Good Shit? This motherfucker?



And you're telling me this is a problem?

#209
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:

Crow posted:
Look, man, sometimes I like you. But I've been doing this irony thing longer than you. You could say its a bit of the ole jungian leaking of the unconscious in to the conscious. But whatever you say, this: https://twitter.com/thug_lessons/media is clearly more than a passing fancy. It is a serious problem. You got that, and you got christopher hitchens. I just want you to get help man. Its fucked up

I'm looking though here, and I'm seeing a lot of Good Shit? This motherfucker?



And you're telling me this is a problem?


it looks like you have the problem of depression.

Edited by eccentricdeathmongrel ()

#210
Post rating: +
Everyone on this flight thought they were just on a normal anime airline. What happened next will amaze you.

#211
[account deactivated]
#212
[account deactivated]
#213
hi
Post rating: +

Crow posted:

I remember when me and impper and like HK went into the Official LF Libyan Invasion & Race War Support Thread and were like Now just hold on fellas.

in the early days of the Libyan "uprising" i was more critical of Gaddafi because i bought into the whole "in bed w/ the west" narrative (which, even if true, wouldn't justify Western intervention against him). by the time the first NATO bombs fell i was firmly in the anti-war camp. there was even a moment where Libyan rebels started selling oil to Qatar (which thru al-jazeera was backing the rebels) and i'm like "holy shit mr. crow is right."

of course, a lot of people were fooled early on. even MRZine was publishing anti-Gaddafi stuff in Feb. 2011.

#214
[account deactivated]
#215
[account deactivated]
#216
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
oh shit guys, assad is killing thousands of people in syria. somebody check how many we have left. 7,229,882,585? nooo assad please stop
#217
Post rating: -
so is the party line that assad, gaddafi, saddam etc never actually did any bad things and were totally nice guys? i dont give a shit about lessons' invasion and i'd bet a month's rent that the us is doing awful shit in syria and that it's bad (but since there's no official presence it seems like the most important political stance for people in the US would be to pressure the govt to own up first and then push for removal?) but im actually curious about how much of this is "lesser of two evils" and how much actual confidence there is that the people in those countries didn't have any legitimate grievances.

edit: including actions that the regime took while conceivably under external international pressure. im less concerned with the "moral character" of the people running the countries than with stuff that actually happened which can then be attributed by proxy to external influences etc as necessary. like if there are legitimate grievances then yeah sure regimes under pressures of all kinds do crazy shit but that's still different from it not happening at all imo.

Edited by c_man ()

#218
[account deactivated]
#219
Post rating: ~
crow said

Crow posted:

ohhh, right, you're conflating the anonymous savagery of war in Syria (sourced by a well-known propaganda lackey for empire, naturally) that is flooded and overdetermined by imperial intervention with well-ingrained tropes about oriental dictators as some absolute wielders of totalitarian violence. gotcha


in response to lessons' bringing up AI/HRW reports on whatever it was he was talking about. idk if this is supposed to mean that the reports are spurious, exaggerated or just one sided.
edit: obviously "nice guys" is an exaggeration, i hope i made it clear that i'm not particularly interested in the moral character of the heads of state

Edited by c_man ()

#220
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

c_man posted:
Please point to where this was said or face the consequences



Crow posted:

Lessons posted:
who did they murder and torture?



Asking this kind of question pretty much skirts the line as far as saying the Assad regime didn't murder and torture anyone. I guess if you want to get tricky about it you could say that Crow was just innocently asking a question but come on...

I don't agree with what Thug Lessons is saying but fwiw, I imagine I'd end up going off the rails too if Crow and Khamsek were double-teaming me.

The call for definitive evidence in circumstances like this where there's bound to be so much misinformation, intentional and not, is not a reasonable position. The US does terrible shit all the time and to be honest I can't see what the real harm is in asserting they're doing it in Syria, even if it turns out later they weren't. Similarly, Assad's gotta be ordering torture and murder because how in the hell else is he winning a brutal, internationally compromised civil war? But I can't see the value in focusing on this fact in a public discussion regardless of whether or not it is true. The truth isn't coming out for years, if ever, and this is all happening now.

#221
Post rating: ~
right yeah im totally on board with ^^that^^ but i think what actually happened to people makes a difference wrt what the stances are. if what happened was that there was no torture to speak of then that's a solid stance and a good way to support a counter narrative. if there was and you think it's because of external pressure's on the regime, then you can say that.
#222
Post rating: +
I mean seriously, show me a state without torture and murder
#223
Post rating: ~
sure but i'm more interested in the specifics of the claims. you can say the reports are bad and wrong for lots of reasons but i think the way in which they are wrong matters.
#224
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

Lessons posted:

daddyholes posted:
how would you propagandize/agitate in the situation, lesson

Idk what you'd agitate for in Syria. Stopping the war that didn't happen and isn't go to? Halting the weapon shipments they say aren't happening and maybe don't exist? Trying to get the US to about-face and support Assad? I don't see anything Western activists can really accomplish.

haha so now Seymour Hersh is full of shit too? what?



lol

#225
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

instead of trying to convince tpaine's customers that bombing people might be morally problematic why don't we all get really rich



This.

#226
Post rating: ~

c_man posted:

sure but i'm more interested in the specifics of the claims. you can say the reports are bad and wrong for lots of reasons but i think the way in which they are wrong matters.



Do you think the way in which they are wrong can be known? I mean, are you saying they're knowable unknowns?

#227
Post rating: ~
even if for whatever reason you think the reports are wrong but don't know why, you probably believe that because you have some past experience (e.g. the stuff crow posted) someone contests on some grounds. then you have an example of how something information was misrepresented, and can try and understand the pressures on the organization and how they work in concert with what they are produce, and in turn what kinds of problems to expect with what they produce. i would argue that it's a good idea to know how (internal mechanisms, conscious or unconscious prejudices, etc) an org like that produces incorrect reporting. the whole point of analysis is to try to understand the mechanism that produces the events we see, isn't it?
#228
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:

what's so pathetic about this? he's 100% correct.


ahahahaha

#229
Post rating: ~

c_man posted:

crow said

Crow posted:

ohhh, right, you're conflating the anonymous savagery of war in Syria (sourced by a well-known propaganda lackey for empire, naturally) that is flooded and overdetermined by imperial intervention with well-ingrained tropes about oriental dictators as some absolute wielders of totalitarian violence. gotcha


in response to lessons' bringing up AI/HRW reports on whatever it was he was talking about. idk if this is supposed to mean that the reports are spurious, exaggerated or just one sided.
edit: obviously "nice guys" is an exaggeration, i hope i made it clear that i'm not particularly interested in the moral character of the heads of state


They're racist imperialist lies. Probably all the war crimes are the work of CIA special forces to discredit Assad. Tell me the Americans wouldn't do that, prove its not true.

#230
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
dolmas are a pain to make though so i buy those at the store
#231
chickeon
Post rating: +

worthless posted:

Assad's gotta be ordering torture and murder because how in the hell else is he winning a brutal, internationally compromised civil war?


Probably by like having the majority of the country united against its foreign invader by like normal nationalist stuff? Bizarre for-its-own-sake wolfblitzer think of the children cartoon villain atrocity tactics normally result in such leaders or regimes or whatever falling a lot quicker. In what way does purposeless brutality potentially strengthen the Syrian government?

Lessons posted:

racist imperialist lies

did you forget about or are you choosing to ignore the enormous amount of these that have actually been exposed as such, straight up admitted to as being completely fabricated for the purposes of imperial war propaganda? Gadaffi Viagra Rape Squads Shooting Civilians With AA Guns

#232
Post rating: +
Good job Khamsek, Jools, and Crow. Thug lessons should be glad im not mod anymore or else he would be permabanned.

This thread is awful, but not because of white "socialists" who are obsessed with anime. It's the people who think as americans there's nothing we can do to stop U.S. imperialism. Do you know how much families in afghanistan, syria, ukraine, etc wish they were americans so they could directly challenge the U.S. govt and media without being murdered? Your white faces and bodies are worth far more to u.s imperialists who dont mind slaughtering millions of people of color who dare to reject complete obedience to imperialist exploitation.

The ultimate irony is that Syria was an example of anti-imperialism stopping a war from happening! and probably saved the country from being looted like libya. Of course, socialists and white petit-bourgeois are not the site of anti-imperialism in the 1st world as this thread can show you, so most sadsack computer socialists genuinely dont think there was any anti-war resistance in the american public.
#233
Post rating: +

chickeon posted:

Bizarre for-its-own-sake wolfblitzer think of the children cartoon villain atrocity tactics normally result in such leaders or regimes or whatever falling a lot quicker.



Haha yeah, indeed, we do live in a Just World where torture and murder are never used by successful regimes.

chickeon posted:

In what way does purposeless brutality potentially strengthen the Syrian government?



I don't understand why you think it's purposeless? I'm sure they're doing it for the same "purposes" this stuff always gets done: they think they'll get intelligence, they want to scare people, they're angry and want revenge etc.

#234
Post rating: -
Okay so an overview: there are probably no atrocities in Syria because the media repeated sensationalist reports before, and if it happened before that means its happening now. If there were any atrocities, they were just acts of random brutality and the government had no knowledge or responsibility, we know this because we like Assad. History will justify the internet weirdos who exalt and excuse any murderous dictator the US doesnt like.
#235
[account deactivated]
#236
Post rating: +

Lessons posted:

Okay so an overview: there are probably no atrocities in Syria because the media repeated sensationalist reports before, and if it happened before that means its happening now. If there were any atrocities, they were just acts of random brutality and the government had no knowledge or responsibility, we know this because we like Assad. History will justify the internet weirdos who exalt and excuse any murderous dictator the US doesnt like.



lol

#237
Post rating: ~
so is anyone going to answer my question?
#238
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

Lessons posted:

Okay so an overview: there are probably no atrocities in Syria because the media repeated sensationalist reports before, and if it happened before that means its happening now. If there were any atrocities, they were just acts of random brutality and the government had no knowledge or responsibility, we know this because we like Assad. History will justify the internet weirdos who exalt and excuse any murderous dictator the US doesnt like.

Internet weirdos are the ones who wiill write the history.

#239
[account deactivated]
#240
Post rating: ~
the same one from earlier.

c_man posted:

so is the party line that assad, gaddafi, saddam etc never actually did any bad things and were totally nice guys? i dont give a shit about lessons' invasion and i'd bet a month's rent that the us is doing awful shit in syria and that it's bad (but since there's no official presence it seems like the most important political stance for people in the US would be to pressure the govt to own up first and then push for removal?) but im actually curious about how much of this is "lesser of two evils" and how much actual confidence there is that the people in those countries didn't have any legitimate grievances.

edit: including actions that the regime took while conceivably under external international pressure. im less concerned with the "moral character" of the people running the countries than with stuff that actually happened which can then be attributed by proxy to external influences etc as necessary. like if there are legitimate grievances then yeah sure regimes under pressures of all kinds do crazy shit but that's still different from it not happening at all imo.



c_man posted:

crow said

Crow posted:

ohhh, right, you're conflating the anonymous savagery of war in Syria (sourced by a well-known propaganda lackey for empire, naturally) that is flooded and overdetermined by imperial intervention with well-ingrained tropes about oriental dictators as some absolute wielders of totalitarian violence. gotcha


in response to lessons' bringing up AI/HRW reports on whatever it was he was talking about. idk if this is supposed to mean that the reports are spurious, exaggerated or just one sided.
edit: obviously "nice guys" is an exaggeration, i hope i made it clear that i'm not particularly interested in the moral character of the heads of state