As for the rest of all these commentaries on Game of Thrones: it takes place in a society of feudalism, barbarism, and slavery. Class society makes most people into monsters, even in fiction and dreams, even when we might pretend otherwise because we happen to find such individuals personable or attractive...or because we ourselves say and do similar things in the real-world contemporary society (nobody likes to admit they are evil and that they are a product of an evil inhuman system).
The Mother of Dragons is a character that I think we can have quite a lot of reasons to sympathize with. But even she is a product of class society, and so far her primary expressed aspiration is to conquer the Seven Kingdoms in order to be its queen. Sure, she might be securing a better society then has preceded thus far in the Westeros fantasy world, but when she advances "freedom", it is not even as much as the limited sort of freedom that the bourgeois revolutions advanced (again, this fantasy world is portrayed as one dominated by the feudal mode of production, so like Marx I wouldn't expect some grand utopian effort before the prerequisite means for modern bourgeois society exist---let alone a communist one that has already achieved the economic means to abolish scarcity and poverty). A lot of people throw the word "freedom" about, yet mean very different things in different eras and social circumstances...just something to think about.
But, of course, I also cheer when the Mother of Dragons encourages all these slaves to slay their masters and "free" themselves. If I had to live in such a world and was able to choose which side I would be on, of course it would be hers, because that side represent advancing social progress the most, and the potential for further social progress exists as a result of her general strategy to overtake the 7 Kingdoms with a mass army of former slaves. All of the other major power players and contenders in this story seek just for themselves and perhaps their families or tribes within the society's status quo (now doesn't that seem quite familiar to us all?). To put it another way, there are lots of attractive interesting characters living in the 7 Kingdoms, but I admit that I would fancy a scene where the mass slave armies invaded and slay every king and queen and lord and lady and all their functionaries...though not as much as I would love to witness and contribute to that happening in our real-world to our contemporary ruling class equivalents.
daddyholes posted:All of the other major power players and contenders in this story seek just for themselves and perhaps their families or tribes within the society's status quo
stannis baratheon, champion of hte lord of light, azor ahai, represents the westerosi equivalent of the leninist vanguard party. arrayed against him are the white walkers (analogues to modern imperialists, who convert humanity into literal dead labour), opportunists (the claimants to his throne), and the lumpen (so-called freedmen of daenerys's army, who, like the anarchists of the russian civil war, were content to turn order into chaos without producing anything of value themselves).
the imperialist white walkers (the clue is in the name) create false consciousness in their victims in order to sow confusion: the free folk ("wildlings") and andals (and their colonised subjects, the first men of the north), though natural allies against the white walkers, are divided on ethnic and cultural lines and turned against one another amidst mutual recriminations. believing in the opiates of religion, loyalty to their liege, and petit-bourgeois/anarchist notions of freedom, the nations are unable to see their true enemy. in fact the upper echelons of the seven kingdoms are so blinded that they at first refuse to believe the imperialists exist! a clear analogue to the argument that we have today reached a classless society.
as the most conscious element (exhibiting not class consciousness, in this struggle against white walker imperialism, but a more fundamental life consciousness) of westerosi society, stannis baratheon and the aptly named red priesthood lead what can only be termed a democratic centralist organisation, with the ordinary people (for example, the brotherhood without banners) shown to have great faith in their delegated leaders and their mission to overcome allegiance to petty kings in the name of human solidarity. this faith is rewarded by the equivalent of the immortal science of marxism-leninism - the miracles of the red priests, who can literally bring back their comrades from death ("lenin lived, lenin lives, lenin will live!"). this however is only one aspect of the objectively correct ideology they follow, as their organisation is shown to be growing into a mass party on the basis of the red priesthood's sound strategies and concern for the wellbeing of all humanity.
in the latter books stannis baratheon is able to overcome the imposed false consciousness of the white walkers and is able to forge a real people's army from the free folk, andals and first men. this unwavering march towards red victory over white reaction is the real centrepiece of the entire series.
Panopticon posted:daddyholes posted:
All of the other major power players and contenders in this story seek just for themselves and perhaps their families or tribes within the society's status quo
stannis baratheon, champion of hte lord of light, azor ahai, represents the westerosi equivalent of the leninist vanguard party. arrayed against him are the white walkers (analogues to modern imperialists, who convert humanity into literal dead labour), opportunists (the claimants to his throne), and the lumpen (so-called freedmen of daenerys's army, who, like the anarchists of the russian civil war, were content to turn order into chaos without producing anything of value themselves).
the imperialist white walkers (the clue is in the name) create false consciousness in their victims in order to sow confusion: the free folk ("wildlings") and andals (and their colonised subjects, the first men of the north), though natural allies against the white walkers, are divided on ethnic and cultural lines and turned against one another amidst mutual recriminations. believing in the opiates of religion, loyalty to their liege, and petit-bourgeois/anarchist notions of freedom, the nations are unable to see their true enemy. in fact the upper echelons of the seven kingdoms are so blinded that they at first refuse to believe the imperialists exist! a clear analogue to the argument that we have today reached a classless society.
as the most conscious element (exhibiting not class consciousness, in this struggle against white walker imperialism, but a more fundamental life consciousness) of westerosi society, stannis baratheon and the aptly named red priesthood lead what can only be termed a democratic centralist organisation, with the ordinary people (for example, the brotherhood without banners) shown to have great faith in their delegated leaders and their mission to overcome allegiance to petty kings in the name of human solidarity. this faith is rewarded by the equivalent of the immortal science of marxism-leninism - the miracles of the red priests, who can literally bring back their comrades from death ("lenin lived, lenin lives, lenin will live!"). this however is only one aspect of the objectively correct ideology they follow, as their organisation is shown to be growing into a mass party on the basis of the red priesthood's sound strategies and concern for the wellbeing of all humanity.
in the latter books stannis baratheon is able to overcome the imposed false consciousness of the white walkers and is able to forge a real people's army from the free folk, andals and first men. this unwavering march towards red victory over white reaction is the real centrepiece of the entire series.
Agreed that Stannis is the progressive force, but only because he has the support of the Iron Bank of Braavos and plans to impose monetary discipline on the Seven Kingdoms, thus creating the preconditions for capital accumulation and the accompanying breakdown of feudal social relations.
gyrofry posted:a serbian film
what are some good ones?
gwarp posted:whats a good movie to watch that is similar in style to requiem for a dream, american psycho, etc. (crazy)? i recently got some new edibles for tonight so want to watch something worth my while.
boss nigger
white man's town...black man's law!
elemennop posted:i got around to watching a serbian film out of ethnic obligation since westerners were disparaging it. they were saying it's pure gore pornography. now, i'm not going to say it's a good movie, but it's pretty apparent that people don't actually know how to watch movies. the text of the movie is so fucking unsubtle it's amazing how seemingly not a single reviewer was able to catch it.
movies dont have texts u dumbass (unless you mean subtitles)
gwarp posted:whats a good movie to watch that is similar in style to requiem for a dream, american psycho, etc. (crazy)? i recently got some new edibles for tonight so want to watch something worth my while.
dredd 3d
littlegreenpills posted:.custom227193{}elemennop posted:i got around to watching a serbian film out of ethnic obligation since westerners were disparaging it. they were saying it's pure gore pornography. now, i'm not going to say it's a good movie, but it's pretty apparent that people don't actually know how to watch movies. the text of the movie is so fucking unsubtle it's amazing how seemingly not a single reviewer was able to catch it.
movies dont have texts u dumbass (unless you mean subtitles)
according to lit theory/critical theory all other media are just pale imitations of the written word which is glorious, perfect, and pure.
roseweird posted:do all you ppl relaly watch game of rhrones
thats what i posted this thread to find out. the answers, are tere, itt.
elemennop posted:i got around to watching a serbian film out of ethnic obligation since westerners were disparaging it. they were saying it's pure gore pornography. now, i'm not going to say it's a good movie, but it's pretty apparent that people don't actually know how to watch movies. the text of the movie is so fucking unsubtle it's amazing how seemingly not a single reviewer was able to catch it.
whats the text (subtext?)
jools posted:elemennop posted:i got around to watching a serbian film out of ethnic obligation since westerners were disparaging it. they were saying it's pure gore pornography. now, i'm not going to say it's a good movie, but it's pretty apparent that people don't actually know how to watch movies. the text of the movie is so fucking unsubtle it's amazing how seemingly not a single reviewer was able to catch it.
whats the text (subtext?)
it's been a while since i've seen it, but i think there's one character that explicitly says something along the lines of "here's the misery porn the west wants" and "here's what the west has created out of us"
gwarp posted:whats a good movie to watch that is similar in style to requiem for a dream, american psycho, etc. (crazy)? i recently got some new edibles for tonight so want to watch something worth my while.
Into the Abyss
gwarp posted:whats a good movie to watch that is similar in style to requiem for a dream, american psycho, etc. (crazy)? i recently got some new edibles for tonight so want to watch something worth my while.
Steven mcqueen's shame is similar to these and similarly bad