1. The violence implicit in market relations in the first world is explicit in the Philippines. Hegemony remains a "privilege" of the first world proletariat. Every bank, every mall, every restaurant, every 7/11 or McDonalds has it's own private policeman with a loaded gun (usually the gun size is proportional to how rich the place is) and really every market exchange is conducted with the direct threat of murder if you don't pay. In a country as ruined by imperialism like the Philippines, violence, being the least effective means of persuasion but to use an Althussurism "in the last instance" the power that allows all other power structures to function, is everywhere in a way we cannot imagine in a late capitalist society which covers it over with so much glisten. And being there, it is obvious that in a real revolutionary situation to the system violence will be the only power that remains.
2. Human rights lol. What a joke, but we already know that. There is only one freedom in the third world and that is the freedom to die. Friedman and Krugman and other liberal idiots are in a vacuum correct when they say that sweatshops improve the lives of people in the third world, because the worst thing is not the appalling working conditions or the absurdly low wages (though both are horrible). The worst is when capitalism, the only system that must consume modes of production outside of itself to survive, consumes a country/culture and then spits it out and leaves it to rot. The Philippines is a rotting carcass, with no culture or natural resources left, just a pile of scrap metal (and I mean that literally that sheet metal that all slums use in the third world makes Manila look like a scrapheap) and most of the people there are simply not needed by the capitalist world system. As part of the industrial reserve army of labor who replenish themselves (the population has gone up by 10 million in 10 years I believe) they are left to die, and the saddest thing is meeting young Filipinos who work a half dozen part time jobs or more, usually with dreams of being Steve Jobs (since even American propaganda meant for American citizens filters into that society), and don't even make enough to live. There are no jobs for most of them, and unless you're a young woman and can become a prostitute you're shit out of luck.
3. Experience teaches a lot very quickly with the proper historical understanding and theoretical foundation, but by itself is worthless. Most of the people I was in a hostel with were the hippie, lifestyle backpacker people who are obviously liberals. We all saw the same things and went on a tour (run by one of the impoverished Filipino guys who worked at the hostel but lived in the slum which I thought was ironic) of the slums and saw all the poor children and terrible unsafe living conditions blah blah. Only I however seemed to be genuinely disturbed, everyone else thought they were doing some great thing by giving kids a cookie or 10 pesos or whatever. I later discovered the politically aware people were making donations to kiva and microfinance shit, the vaguely spiritual ones talked about the enlightening experience, and the rest just ignored the world outside the white people bubble we were in. Hippies have fallen far, they aren't even vaguely anti-free market anymore.
4. To expand on an experience of this tour I went on, I can summarize it as a bunch of white demi-gods descending to the slums, going around and saying hi to everyone, and then buying snacks and shit and giving them to children and crippled/wretched people. In general, as a westerner in the 3rd world you're either an imperialist lord who is viewed as worthy of worship or you're viewed as a walking ATM machine. There was only one exception my entire time in the Philippines and it was on this dumb tour when some middle aged guy was going around telling everyone "I just converted to Islam!" Of course this was too much for the liberals so they just said hello uncomfortably and went on their way but I said "As-Salaam-Alaikum" to the guy. I'm sure I pronounced it terribly and as a non-muslim I'm sure someone will be offended but something came over me. Anyway, the guy looked me in the eye and said "Wa Alaikum as-Salam" and we shook hands. I went on but that was the only moment when I felt equal to the Filipinos around me, and it was a really interesting experience. I'm not Muslim and I don't plan to become an ADULT CONVERT to Islam but I definitely have a lot to think about wrt Islam as a force of liberation and dignity in the third world. This was reinforced a lot in Malaysia but I'll probably talk about that trip later.
5. I already talked about how you're either a God or an ATM. All relations become dehumanized and when the scramble for the scraps of capital forces people to consume each other Filipinos do horrible things to tourists and each other. This is obvious but two important topics I feel deserve discussion. The noble savage myth is the first thing that is dispelled, and in fact when you're constantly fighting against being scammed, guarding against being robbed or caught somewhere dangerous, and constantly being harassed by pimps and prostitutes (obviously for women the harassment is different and worse) you grow to hate the people and the place. This I feel is extremely important because it truly dispels any myths about the third world proletariat being better or white people being somehow worse (or better) or that we gave the Philippines it's own government in 1946 but if we really left them alone things would be OK. The whole system is fucked up and makes monsters of all of us, and you start to understand the Filipinos who see all white people as imperialist sex addicts, the white imperialists who see Filipinos as subhuman and the colonial occupiers who did inhuman things for 400 years without blinking an eye, the liberal feel good tourists who either live in a bubble and pretend they made a difference or shut off their brains from reality, and in general the pointlessness of individual action against a whole self-creating and truly horrible system.
6. All women you meet are prostitutes. This is most likely because you're a tourist but even so the number of prostitutes as well as the price (like 500 pesos which is around 10 dollars) is truly astonishing. This is not liberatory at all but these women of course have no choice and surely make more money than the street dwellers who don't have the option. Some are really beautiful too, and it definitely gives one a lot to think about in terms of the accidental geography of birth, 1st world feminism, and the sex tourism industry. Speaking of which, you meet the scum of the earth in Manila, these absolutely disgusting old white dudes. I met one guy from New Zealand who was there for his third Filipino wife. His first one had left him, the second one had just died, and he was here for his third one. Typical creepy looking old dude, he was definitely the rule and not the exception among the expat "community". The sewers of capitalism always attract scum.
Have more thoughts prolly but I'm jetlagged so I'll let this sit for a while. Thanks for not reading
Edited by babyhueypnewton ()
Was the middle-aged convert a Filipino?
The communist-led New People's Army (NPA) in the Philippines, considered a terrorist organization by the United States and the European Union, is not only active at home but also exporting abroad its expertise in guerrilla warfare to insurgencies in other Asian countries.
Some hardcore cadres, toughened by decades of fighting the security forces, have reportedly recently trained Maoist rebels in India and their presence is also being monitored in some Southeast Asian nations, including Thailand, where a Muslim insurgency has destabilized the southernmost regions.
How operatives of the NPA, one of Asia's longest-running insurgent groups, have been able to travel abroad and train other insurgent groups has baffled intelligence and diplomatic officials in the Philippines. "They could have posed either as businessmen or students," says a senior Manila-based diplomat.
).
That's cool about Filipino revolutionaries, all I knew was there's a small Muslim insurgency on one of the islands and the lonely planet is like ESSENTIAL SAFETY INFORMATION FROM TERRORISTS on the cover lol. Malaysia however has a really interesting history with it's communist party. Reading about the incompetence of the party in which the general secretary Lai Teck was a French spy in Vietnam, then a British Spy in Malaysia, then became a Japanese spy during the war, then back to being a British spy before finally being investigated and fleeing the country (at least he was strangled to death by Thai communists
) it's pretty interesting how different the leadership of communist parties are and what that says about traditional party organization.
animedad posted:
blah, i was hoping for stuff like this in my failed tourism thread. good posts bphn
"Tourists.-- They climb mountains like animals, stupid and sweating, one has forgotten to tell them that there are beautiful views on the way up"
-Nietzsche
getfiscal posted:
good post. a filipino poster at wddp said that the maoists have completely devolved into a sort of crime organization, like what some people accuse FARC of becoming i guess. i'm not sure what White People can do though, which probably shapes some of their responses too. like even if they cared a lot do they vote third party? start an insurgency in america and get killed the next day? i dunno. bad situation.
This is actually interesting you bring it up because I just had a discussion on the topic with my sister who went to India and had a similar experience with poverty, misery, hopelessness, scams +sexual harassment and went in with the liberal bug. She came out sort of Machiavellian about the whole thing (even though I hate that expression 
) and without the guiding light of Marxism came out basically like "there's nothing individuals can do, especially privileged white 1st worlders". I'd like to think I'm the correct one thinking that the world can be changed with a correct understanding of the political economy of why the 2rd world is so miserable but I'm not blind enough to discount that I may be the liberal one with faith in truth and that reality is hopeless but too depressing for my brain. Either way I'm no fool and I know being a genuine Marxist revolutionary means rotting in a prison or getting shot unless you're extremely lucky, and dying for some random people in the Philippines is a lot to ask of someone, and I don't really fault people for choosing to lie to themselves and genuinely think peace corps or charity/red cross or whatever makes a difference even though it doesn't and is just to feel good. But I think that issue is for another thread. Also Microfinance is still horrible.
babyhueypnewton posted:
"Tourists.-- They climb mountains like animals, stupid and sweating, one has forgotten to tell them that there are beautiful views on the way up"
-Nietzsche
people would look out the window but they get carsick
Lykourgos posted:
Dunno what political economy means, but the world can only be fixed by creating and supporting an aristocracy
well, lucky for you....
getfiscal posted:
good post. a filipino poster at wddp said that the maoists have completely devolved into a sort of crime organization, like what some people accuse FARC of becoming i guess. i'm not sure what White People can do though, which probably shapes some of their responses too. like even if they cared a lot do they vote third party? start an insurgency in america and get killed the next day? i dunno. bad situation.
hmmm, well, it sounds like he's an idiot, but that's just my opinion
Crow posted:
hmmm, well, it sounds like he's an idiot, but that's just my opinion
*puts peanuts out 4 u*
babyhueypnewton posted:
Figured out quoteanimedad posted:
blah, i was hoping for stuff like this in my failed tourism thread. good posts bphn
"Tourists.-- They climb mountains like animals, stupid and sweating, one has forgotten to tell them that there are beautiful views on the way up"
-Nietzschegetfiscal posted:
good post. a filipino poster at wddp said that the maoists have completely devolved into a sort of crime organization, like what some people accuse FARC of becoming i guess. i'm not sure what White People can do though, which probably shapes some of their responses too. like even if they cared a lot do they vote third party? start an insurgency in america and get killed the next day? i dunno. bad situation.
This is actually interesting you bring it up because I just had a discussion on the topic with my sister who went to India and had a similar experience with poverty, misery, hopelessness, scams +sexual harassment and went in with the liberal bug. She came out sort of Machiavellian about the whole thing (even though I hate that expression
mwahahaha
babyhueypnewton posted:
This is not liberatory at all but these women of course have no choice and surely make more money than the street dwellers who don't have the option. Some are really beautiful too, and it definitely gives one a lot to think about in terms of the accidental geography of birth, 1st world feminism, and the sex tourism industry.
awesome post but do you mind elaborating on this part a little bit? talking about the depravity of the situation and then mentioning how some of the women are beautiful made me wonder if I'm missing something. it comes off a little icky!
getfiscal posted:
good post. a filipino poster at wddp said that the maoists have completely devolved into a sort of crime organization
"devolved"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/oct/02.htm
futurewidow posted:babyhueypnewton posted:
This is not liberatory at all but these women of course have no choice and surely make more money than the street dwellers who don't have the option. Some are really beautiful too, and it definitely gives one a lot to think about in terms of the accidental geography of birth, 1st world feminism, and the sex tourism industry.awesome post but do you mind elaborating on this part a little bit? talking about the depravity of the situation and then mentioning how some of the women are beautiful made me wonder if I'm missing something. it comes off a little icky!
Sorry yeah I was thinking about that as I was typing it because the thought is half finished and it doesn't sound great as it is. What I mean is that a lot of these girls could be models or would at least be fawned over by men if they had been born in the west. At the very least, they would be high class prostitutes. In the Philippines, there's just such an overabundance of young women, no jobs, and drooling white men with money that they also cost about 500 pesos. I'm not trying to imply ugly or old women deserve to be prostitutes or something but it's shocking to see what would be a stunning beauty in the USA in a dive bar full of lowlifes offering to massage you while you drink.
8. Everyone gets sick in the third world. Not just because there are a bunch of horrible diseases that don't exist in the west or have mostly been eradicated, like dengue fever, malaria, tuberculosis, measles, typhoid, etc (lonely planet health guide scared the shit out of me on the plane
) but just a general sickness. The norm is a constant sore throat and various mild annoyances from the air, or maybe the lack of sanitary conditions, or possibly the climate, or the food, who really knows. I did however get an infection which freaked me out (and based on the reaction to my last post on women I won't go into why) and I went to the hospital which was about 1/10th the price of the United States. None of this is that important, what's important is that I could go to the hospital, I was living in (relatively) sanitary conditions, and I could always leave the country. Going around afterwards I realized that when poor Filipinos get sick, as I'm sure they constantly do, they either get better on their own or they die. Who knows how many people die who simply never existed for the government and are never counted by statistics. I'm sure I don't have to tell you the hospital was crawling with police with massive shotguns. And I'm sure Foucault would say that keeping people from leaving the country, keeping them from entering the places rich people and white people go, and letting them die to whatever disease in their little slum is a very inefficient and disorderly way to control disease which is one of the few methods of death that transgresses class.
edit to 7: discipline rightly points out that Filipinos are constantly leaving and the illegal workforce in the non-western capitalist economies is largely Filipino (Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Saudia Arabia, Dubai, etc). the contrast I should have made clearer was the carefree, borderless lifestyle of the European backpacker and the ease and implicit trust governments put in white people with tourist visas (and the accompanying revolting backpacker ideology) and the highly controlled, class based emigration controls of countries in the third world. Visiting other countries in the way we think of it doesn't exist (also the airports have way more security checks obviously) except for the very rich. *fixed it to vacation*
Edited by babyhueypnewton ()
9. The most hilarious and sad thing about the slums is that every wall is covered with campaign posters for various city and regional politicians. Some are extremely old and have probably been there for 20 years while some are fresh, and a lot of politicians come around and give out t-shirts so you see a lot of those too. We already know that democracy is a sham but for some reason seeing a "vote for me" poster outside of a tiny room with 6 people living in it and hijacked electricity got to me. When I pointed out this absurdity others generally agreed but couldn't follow the implications without their liberal brains shutting down for safety reasons. Oh and obviously the government of the Philippines is corrupt beyond belief, but you could find that out on wikipedia. What's interesting is no one does, and none of the backpackers and tourists I met seemed to know anything about the Philippines. Maybe because people were so nice, but my conclusion from these things was that most young liberals aren't hateful or racist people, though they support a system which is both, but are simply not that bright, very uneducated about the world, and highly trained to abstract reality from theory (the futility of voting right in front of their eyes never comes within 10 feet of the general idea of voting as an effective means of representation).
discipline posted:
Point 7 isn't ringing true what with I've read and studied, wherein the Philippines has a very sizable export economy based on specialized human labor (nurses, childcare). It's very lucrative for the state because remittances is such a large part of their economy, even moreso than Mexico iirc mostly because it is institutionalized in a more formal way.
Sorry it came off wrong I'm gonna edit it. What I meant to say is you can't leave for vacation or get emigrate/get citizenship. I was going by a few Filipino people I talked to who had wanted to go to Europe and found the process impossible, expensive, and nightmarish. I was commenting on the ease of travelling the world as a backpacker for westerners, especially Europeans who gain a spiritual ethos from the experience compared to the reality of crossing borders for a citizen of the 3rd world.
You're absolutely right, when I was in Korea most of the prostitutes, illegal workers, and mail order brides were Filipinos, and the Saudi economy runs on Filipinos as do the world's seas. Also there are quite a few Filipino nurses/housekeepers as you mentioned. The legal status and strict control of their activities/passports/lives makes them very different from Mexicans however who cross the border and disappear from world citizenship control while Filipino migrant workers are kept under lock and key and as you said institutionalized by the government.
Here's some stats:
http://www.financemanila.net/2008/12/how-many-people-leave-the-philippines-each-year/
babyhueypnewton posted:
(the futility of voting right in front of their eyes never comes within 10 feet of the general idea of voting as an effective means of representation).
if we went back to only white land-owning males voting would it be an effective means of representation?
NounsareVerbs posted:babyhueypnewton posted:
(the futility of voting right in front of their eyes never comes within 10 feet of the general idea of voting as an effective means of representation).if we went back to only white land-owning males voting would it be an effective means of representation?
Not really. Even when this was the case, there were quite a few anti-capitalist white landowning males (Thomas Jefferson for example) and slaveholders were definitely not capitalist. This had very little effect on the development of industrial capitalism across the country, basically destroying the relevance and spirit of the constitution, and eliminating the very class of landed aristocracy you're referring to. Obviously this story is very complicated but the point for me is democracy has always been like Palestinian democracy. You're allowed to vote and have representation as long as it's the right representation, if that ever disrupts the accumulation of capital or conflicts with the current mode of production (global finance capital atm) it doesn't matter if you're the richest, most white dude ever (Bill Gates and the dumbass millionaires trying to boycott the influence of money in politics or whatever lol for example).
To bring this to my general point, I'm very sceptical of democracy as a concept, and the methods we use like voting, proportional representation, and human rights which are now indistinguishable from the word democracy I have not been very impressed with. I think that new concepts of systems of power which run people's lives, like in that great thread on that machine in Chile, are the beginning of imagining a new society in which democracy will be a method for running a specific society in a specific historical period and mode of production like we see Spartan society now or Egyptian society.
oh ps sorry this is way off topic
Edited by babyhueypnewton ()
babyhueypnewton posted:
To bring this to my general point, I'm very sceptical of democracy as a concept, and the methods we use like voting, proportional representation, and human rights which are now indistinguishable from the word democracy I have not been very impressed with. I think that new concepts of systems of power which run people's lives, like in that great thread on that machine in Chile, are the beginning of imagining a new society in which democracy will be a method for running a specific society in a specific historical period and mode of production like we see Spartan society now or Egyptian society.
this reminded me about when Lenin sort of deals with this in The State and Revolution:
"Communism alone is capable of providing really complete democracy, and the more complete it is, the sooner it will become unnecessary and wither away of its own accord." link
personally i think that the idea that the state withers away is not something we are very concerned with yet. like i was talking to a well-educated trotskyist once on d&d who said that the soviet union couldn't have been socialist because the state was powerful and the definition of socialism in lenin's sense is that the state would be withering away, and this conception of the state apparently is not laughed at. i don't think that "withering away" of democracy is very much our immediate concern, and i think that latin americans are correct to focus on a sort of "protagonism" (as they call it) that sees individuals trying to run their own society. what i don't think, and i've tried to make clear, is that this means that the population ought to be "let" to run their society in any way they see fit. this is almost trivially true in terms of americans who vote for imperialist war and such, but like, say, in india where the majority of voters choose between far-right hindu nationalism and right-social-democratic exploitation, this is probably not a tolerable choice.
babyhueypnewton posted:
(and based on the reaction to my last post on women I won't go into why)
now you have to go into it.