#1
San Francisco
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Please read this primer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

Is this correct? If not, why not?

Is leftism slave morality? Is rightism master morality?

How much of an influence did master-slave morality have on Nazism? (Particularly the parts which associate the Jews with slave morality)

Do you think master morality is correct? Do you think slave morality is correct (but is given an unfair name or treatment by Nietzsche)?
#2
tardy on these heaters
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Good or bad as framed by master or by slave morality? Master morality is good by its own terms and slave morality is good by its own terms. Hence they are moralities
#3
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babyfinland posted:
Good or bad as framed by master or by slave morality? Master morality is good by its own terms and slave morality is good by its own terms. Hence they are moralities



ya.

#4
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ya but wich ones beter
#5
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nene posted:
ya but wich ones beter



you are

#6
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i'd say practically every modern philosophy follows the tenants of slave morality, both 'right' and 'left.' (really almost every ideology in the west is liberal) the only contemporary exception i can think thats taken even remotely seriously is objectivism lol

re: the nazis and nietzsche. i don't think it had a major influence on fascism or national socialism. i think fascism was more of a reaction to what was seen as a moribund and dying society (in italy anyway) master morality seems to mostly revolve around the nobility of individuals, like the tsars in russia. the nazis and fascists were attempting to give their entire nations a kind of heroic nobility. imo thats still a slave society, especially when everyone is supposed to be an organ of the state
#7
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yes the master--slave morality is correct. Post to front page asap
#8
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crow. when are party. we
#9
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When I make enough money to go to chicity !
#10
Mike Nelson here.
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there is a russian propaganda exhibit at a chicago art museum right now

go see it and heil stalin
#11
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slavery is illegal
#12
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Been running so long
I've nearly lost all track of time
In every direction
I couldn't see the warning signs
I must be losin' it
'Cuz my mind plays tricks on me
It looked so easy
But you know looks sometimes deceive

Been running so fast
Right from the starting line
No more connections
I don't need any more advice
One hand's just reaching out
And one's just hangin' on
It seems my weaknesses
Just keep going strong

(Chorus
Head over heels
Where should I go
Can't stop myself
Outta control
Head over heels
No time to think
Looks like
The whole world's out of sync

Been running so hard
When what I need is to unwind
The voice of reason
Is one I left so far behind
I waited so long
So long to play this part
And just remembered
That I'd forgotten about my heart

(Chorus)
#13
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Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men.
#14
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bump
#15
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*flips through rules for radicals desperately* uhhh uhhh slavery is bad!
#16
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this thread made me wish we lived in the alternate timeline where crow made enough money to party in chicago with impper and they formed a successful communist party that promptly took power, instead of this dark timeline where impper just plays hearthstone all day and crow only posts on facebook instead of the rhizzone
#17
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came here looking for answers, but now all i got is more qustions
#18
mt.real
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tears posted:

came here looking for answers, but now all i got is more qustions


i sense a soul in search of anxwers

#19
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fun fact: Nietzsche has a few diatribes against socialism, and this is held by (alt)right fans as evidence that he's a proto-fascist like them. but there's 0 evidence that Nietzsche ever read Marx (none of his works were in his possession, and there's no mention of Marx or Marxism in any of his writings or correspondence).

when Nietzsche goes off on socialism, the target he has in mind is anti-Semitic utopian socialist Eugen Duhring -- the very same Duhring that Engels wrecked in his own classic text.

since Duhring's writings are almost never read today, he's maybe the most well-known figure in intellectual history known primarily for getting owned by other, better thinkers
#20
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Crow posted:



Well

#21
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Post this to fromnt page asap
#22
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Its kind of cool how we think of socialism as marxism but at the time there were a bunch of different weird socalisms floating around that nobody even knows about now that repeatedly get owned in classic russian lit and stuff.
#23
mt.real
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would be cool to know more about them. i wonder how often that shit even gets read anymore.
#24
Kurdt
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Keven posted:

Its kind of cool how we think of socialism as marxism but at the time there were a bunch of different weird socalisms floating around that nobody even knows about now that repeatedly get owned in classic russian lit and stuff.


they don't really get owned, it's more like dostoevesky is their bill maher / jon stewart

#25
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Dostoevesky is well known as the "Jon Stewart of Literature"
#26
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Consciousness must pass through each of these phases, this what Hegel calls the master-slave dialectic, where the subject comes to know itself through the encounter with the other, subsequent struggle for domination and where these two moralities come up.

The master holds the slave as his object and knows him, but because the slave, in slave morality finds his consciousness in response to the master, he thus attains a form of self consciousness. The slave attains self consciousness as an object, which is greater consciousness than the master, allowing the process to continue
#27
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Nietzsche viewed Christianity as a form of slave morality, and by his own definition sure it takes those characteristics, but I believe that the true Christian ethical action allows one to 'win' even in a moment of submissive self-sacrifice, like we see with Christ or the protest model of Dr King.

I think this is the best morality
#28
mt.real
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is anyone going to care about Nietzsche in 100 or 200 years? this is a real question.

i feel like if he were alive today he would be very easy to confuse with the timecube guy.
#29
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I'm sure the 2017 neitszche's blog would be a very intelligible and straightforward source of information about ethics in video games
#30
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shitposter-mod morality
#31
UNUSUALY COOL
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the slow descent into kink shaming on the rhizzone
#32
"Jpg." - Hank Hill
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drcat posted:

is anyone going to care about Nietzsche in 100 or 200 years? this is a real question.



-Doktor Katze, 1879

#33
"Jpg." - Hank Hill
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He became the youngest ever to hold the Chair of Classical Philology at the University of Basel in 1869, at the age of 24. Nietzsche resigned in 1879 due to health problems that plagued him most of his life, and he completed much of his core writing in the following decade. In 1889, at age 44, he suffered a collapse and a complete loss of his mental faculties. He lived his remaining years in the care of his mother (until her death in 1897), and then with his sister Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche, and died in 1900.

lol nietzche was even goonier than i thought
#34
UNUSUALY COOL
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he also bought a typewriter with a weird goony keyboard. check and mate.
#35
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is this what goat's wedding certificate was typed up with
#36
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cars posted:

the slow descent into kink shaming on the rhizzone



Kink shaming as revolutionary praxis

#37
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The_Boourns_Identity posted:

Nietzsche viewed Christianity as a form of slave morality, and by his own definition sure it takes those characteristics, but I believe that the true Christian ethical action allows one to 'win' even in a moment of submissive self-sacrifice, like we see with Christ or the protest model of Dr King.

I think this is the best morality



Dr. King is a terrible example to use for slave morality. Nietzsche thought slave-morality was ultimately a morality of self pity, ie, "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

if Dr. King's position had been, "yes, it's true that black people are a slow-witted race of layabouts and pickaninnies, but our simple ways have a noble goodness to them" then THAT would be slave morality

i'm sure that Nietzsche would find the praxis of Dr. King ingratiating due to its Christian background and imagery (conversely, Dr. King probably was familiar with Nietzsche, he taught a college class on ethics and the reading list was quite in-depth and featured a lot of German philosophy), and technically Nietzsche emphasized that ANY morality is ultimately a historical, social construct. but Nietzsche definitely had his favored qualities, and Dr. King had more of them than some doofus like Richard Spencer could ever hope to

drcat posted:

is anyone going to care about Nietzsche in 100 or 200 years? this is a real question.

i feel like if he were alive today he would be very easy to confuse with the timecube guy.



i mean, as much as any philosopher will be read in 100-200 years. he's got huge advantages over a lot of his peers in that he's much more readable. compare him to Hegel or Heidegger, and it's night and day. he's pithy, sarcastic, endlessly quotable. reading Hegel is a chore even for his fans. reading Nietzsche is actually enjoyable, or at least as enjoyable as anything in philosophy.

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:

lol nietzche was even goonier than i thought



if it helps, there's a good chance his physical and mental decline was due to syphilis, so at least he lost the ol' V-Card, amirite?

#38
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The wikipedia page is probably inadequate, I'm not going to read it to say how though.

Is leftism slave morality? Is rightism master morality?

No on both counts. Don't know why you're using left/right to describe things though, there are a lot of people on the 'left' so called that might as well be Nazis (~imo~).

These moral categories really don't work to describe any differences between political currents today. In the west the question of left and right is about whether we should socialize the gains from imperialism.

Master/slave morality as categories of analysis can only ever be applied with extreme subtlety.

How much of an influence did master-slave morality have on Nazism? (Particularly the parts which associate the Jews with slave morality)

The Jews are identified as the ones who completed the slave revolt in morality with Christ. This isn't why Nazis hated them though. Anti-semitism and nationalism are considered by Nietzsche to be quite horrible and a good sign of a failed person and I'm sure he says many times that Jews are a great people.

Pretty much all of his worst quotations on Jews and socialism are found in 'Will to Power' which was liberally edited by someone else and published after his death. I think they were themselves a Nazi but I can't remember. If you've read Nietzsche you'll know how bad of a caricature they are.

Do you think master morality is correct? Do you think slave morality is correct (but is given an unfair name or treatment by Nietzsche)?

Well I mean Nietzsche doesn't prescribe either, for him his hatred towards slave morality is so great because he identifies it as limiting a persons development and constricting them with unnecessary neuroses.


Next to nothing that Nietzsche criticized can be applied to Marx, as I see it a few lines from Marx on ideology are sufficient to encapsulate more or less everything Nietzsche said.

Reading about Nietzsche will get you nowhere, pick up the Genealogy of Morals if you want to have a not stupid opinion about him.
#39
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Also slave morality has created for us the possibility for a higher type of man... so in a way.............. it's good...........................................................................................................................................................
#40
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thirdplace posted:

I'm sure the 2017 neitszche's blog would be a very intelligible and straightforward source of information about ethics in video games



I down voted this